Comment Thread for The Resurrection of Jesus - Apologiaphoenix vs Gary

[Gary]

This government of God was tried in the U.S.
when slavery was regarded as a divine institution.
The pulpit of that day
defended the buying and selling of women and babies.
The mouths of the slave-traders
were filled with passages of Scripture,
defending and upholding traffic in human flesh. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossex...rican-slavery/

[Apologiaphoenix]

Christian slaver owners could have made their slaves free men and paid them a wage to do the work they were already doing.

You know Christians were the ones who destroyed slavery in the Roman Empire. Right?

[Gary]

You know Christians were the ones who destroyed slavery in the Roman Empire. Right?

Not because of anything the Bible says about slavery.

Nick: How many times must I ask you to back up your assertion that I disagree with the overwhelming majority of scholars, historians, and Near East experts on any ancient claim? Either list it, or admit you were mistaken and that you have sinned by "bearing false witness" witness against me.

[tabibito]

Manumitted Slaves

As an incentive some slaves received a wage and could accumulate it to buy their freedom. Some masters granted freedom in their will. Slaves who were manumitted (freed) became freedmen or freedwomen, not citizens, but they could marry and their children would be citizens. Freed people made up about five percent of the population of Rome, but since the status lasted only a single generation there were no dynasties of freed families.
Slaves were never granted their freedom without also having the means to support themselves. Some were given a small plot of land, while others were set up as shop keepers and artisans. Undoubtedly a woman slave needed a male partner in order to meet the requirement of being able to support herself. The freedman or freedwoman was expected to remain loyal to the former master and he in his turn was expected to provide ongoing support in time of need. Freedom was not a way of getting rid of a slave that was too old or sick to work. Much to the disgust of lower class citizens, freed people sometimes achieved considerable wealth.

That was secular practice. Can you demonstrate that Christian masters didn't commonly follow this course? Of course you can't. Maybe you think that the founding apostles were inclined to repeat everything they had ever said in writing? Maybe you haven't noticed that the teachings of Christianity involved sharing with the less fortunate - even to the point of selling off property to do so - but that it wasn't a mandated action. It was considered reasonable for people to keep their own property if they so desired without censure.
What you believe of first century Christianity is indeed a myth.

[Christianbookworm]

Poor Gary doesn't realize that his "arguments" affect us as much as bullets affect a certain fictional glasses wearing reporter.

[Gary]

The Christian god condones slavery. He is therefore evil and immoral.

[Christianbookworm]

He regulated indentured servitude. Not the same as condoning kidnapping people and forcing them to be slaves, which was a capital crime in Ancient Israel.

[tabibito]

Right now I miss the witches that I once had contact with. They at least could bring something like scholarship into their objections and debate. And they could even acknowledge when their argument, or their perceptions of Christianity, had been flawed.
Never once did they hide their heads under the pillow and chant a mantra in the hope that facts would go away.

[Apologiaphoenix]

Not because of anything the Bible says about slavery.

Nick: How many times must I ask you to back up your assertion that I disagree with the overwhelming majority of scholars, historians, and Near East experts on any ancient claim? Either list it, or admit you were mistaken and that you have sinned by "bearing false witness" witness against me.

Gary. I've presented my interviews with leading scholars. Instead of dealing with them, you go to YouTube videos. That's disavowing scholarship so there is no false witness.

Want to deal with slavery? Consider this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Scripture-Slav...re+and+Slavery

[Gary]

He regulated indentured servitude. Not the same as condoning kidnapping people and forcing them to be slaves, which was a capital crime in Ancient Israel.

The above video is very short. Less than five minutes, Wormy. The issue you bring up is addressed. PLEASE listen to this video and then tell me that Yahweh forbid making foreigners slaves for life.

[Christianbookworm]

Gary. I've presented my interviews with leading scholars. Instead of dealing with them, you go to YouTube videos. That's disavowing scholarship so there is no false witness.

Want to deal with slavery? Consider this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Scripture-Slav...re+and+Slavery

For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

Donchaknow that Youtube is better than all those stinkin' scholars at bein' smart about those Christians?

[Gary]

Gary. I've presented my interviews with leading scholars. Instead of dealing with them, you go to YouTube videos. That's disavowing scholarship so there is no false witness.

Want to deal with slavery? Consider this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Scripture-Slav...re+and+Slavery

Nick. Stop obfuscating! You accused me of disregarding the position of the overwhelming majority of scholars. Please provide just ONE issue about which I have disagreed with the overwhelming majority of scholars. Just because I am not willing to read all your links does not mean that any of my positions are outside of mainstream scholarship.

You are bearing false witness against me, Nick. Put up or shut up.

[Apologiaphoenix]

Already have Gary. You don't interact with scholarship. You dodge everything that tthey say and when I put up links to leading scholars I've interviewed, you don't bother listening and insist we listen to your guys.

[tabibito]

The above video is very short. Less than five minutes, Wormy. The issue you bring up is addressed. PLEASE listen to this video and then tell me that Yahweh forbid making foreigners slaves for life.

Yup - that he did.

But of course, the argument presented in the video will undoubtedly be careful to ignore Deuteronomy 23:15-16
So - a slave who was mistreated had recourse to safe refuge.

[Christianbookworm]

The above video is very short. Less than five minutes, Wormy. The issue you bring up is addressed. PLEASE listen to this video and then tell me that Yahweh forbid making foreigners slaves for life.

Why should I? You don't watch the tektontv vids, why should I watch some fundy atheist vid?