Originally posted by One Bad Pig
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Comment Thread for The Resurrection of Jesus - Apologiaphoenix vs Gary
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"So, I think to myself: He is either lying, misunderstood what he saw, or it happened. Assuming I understood the story he told (and I sometimes doubt that), these are the only three conceivable alternatives. The first two are very hard to believe. Therefore, I think I believe the third."
people lie all the time, but I dont think this guy is.
the guy misunderstood what he saw is hard to believe even though people making mistakes happens routinely and is well documented...
the only rational conclusion to draw is that the miracles were real.
I laughed a little. c'mon - you guys have to at least see how this looks....
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostFixed that for you.
Gray has already chosen not to believe. so witnessing a real miracle wouldnt work for him... even though it seems to have for Isaac, Jacob, Gideon, Naaman, the Israelites, Moses, Hezekiah, Thomas and the other apostles... but other than them, witnessing a real miracle wouldnt work since Gary has doesnt want to believe it them...
even though his belief in the color of the sky wouldnt change even if wanted to believe it was another color, and other such obvious things...
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostYou are being less than truthful here, Gary. The author finds it difficult to believe Keener's claims, but does so anyway:
Big difference.
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for the believers on this forum, I've sort of devolved into a few sniping comments here and there. I dont think I've gotten out of control, but i prefer to avoid that type of behavior. So sorry.
For me, I think we've pretty much exhausted our view on miracles and what we think is credible or incredible.
So, if I could, I have two questions:
1) there are mass witnesses to miracles of catholics, Hindus, Buddhists and others - would you believe these miracles if there were multiple reports of them?
2) Were raised with a belief in the Bible, or were any of you raised in either an opposing religion or raised truly atheistic?
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Originally posted by William View Post"So, I think to myself: He is either lying, misunderstood what he saw, or it happened. Assuming I understood the story he told (and I sometimes doubt that), these are the only three conceivable alternatives. The first two are very hard to believe. Therefore, I think I believe the third."
people lie all the time, but I dont think this guy is.
the guy misunderstood what he saw is hard to believe even though people making mistakes happens routinely and is well documented...
the only rational conclusion to draw is that the miracles were real.
I laughed a little. c'mon - you guys have to at least see how this looks....
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Originally posted by William View Postfor the believers on this forum, I've sort of devolved into a few sniping comments here and there. I dont think I've gotten out of control, but i prefer to avoid that type of behavior. So sorry.
For me, I think we've pretty much exhausted our view on miracles and what we think is credible or incredible.
So, if I could, I have two questions:
1) there are mass witnesses to miracles of catholics, Hindus, Buddhists and others - would you believe these miracles if there were multiple reports of them?
2) Were raised with a belief in the Bible, or were any of you raised in either an opposing religion or raised truly atheistic?
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostYes.
Raised in a hippy cult that taught that orthodox Christianity was a lie.
I was raised Church of Christ. Pretty much fundamentalists who thought everyone else was hell bound.
and I get that one is not "born christian", but I think everyone gets the question. I'm not trying to trip anyone up with work play or anything.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostYes.
Raised in a hippy cult that taught that orthodox Christianity was a lie.
and also, what are your christian beliefs?
I ask, because if i find multiple sources for at least one mass miracle that is not christian, how would you take that? What that mean about your understanding of God to you?
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Originally posted by William View Postand also, what are your christian beliefs?
I ask, because if i find multiple sources for at least one mass miracle that is not christian, how would you take that? What that mean about your understanding of God to you?
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Originally posted by Adrift View Postorthodox with a little "o". I don't belong to any denomination.
You've already asked these questions, and I've already answered them.
I am curious not argue over it, but just to learn how differently people view this than I would have when i was a believer.
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Originally posted by William View Postfor the believers on this forum, I've sort of devolved into a few sniping comments here and there. I dont think I've gotten out of control, but i prefer to avoid that type of behavior. So sorry.
For me, I think we've pretty much exhausted our view on miracles and what we think is credible or incredible.
So, if I could, I have two questions:
1) there are mass witnesses to miracles of catholics, Hindus, Buddhists and others - would you believe these miracles if there were multiple reports of them?
2) Were raised with a belief in the Bible, or were any of you raised in either an opposing religion or raised truly atheistic?
2) Depends what you mean. I was raised in a very liberal form of Judaism (Reform), and neither of my parents are at all religious. My mother is more or less an apatheist and my father a deist. I was more or less an agnostic by the time I was 15. In high school, I fluctuated between atheism, agnosticism, and deism.
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