Christians and Trump--two perspectives

[Cow Poke]

I'll type this really slowly for you, my dear son, Timothy....

....Now you are saying that it is an outright lie.....

Assuming you're referring to the riot - I never EVER said it was an outright lie.
That would be you lying about what I said. Cause I never EVER said that.

[Cow Poke]

Do you ever read what you post?

I do, and I also read where you absolutely misrepresented my position.
I'll be gracious, however, and chalk it up to ignorance on your part, not malevolence.

That better?

[Timothy]

No, sir - you saying that I'm saying it is an outright lie would be an outright lie.
I NEVER said that...

Do you ever read what you post?

...including repeating outright lies...

[One Bad Pig]

Thank you. I just thought it was note worthy that Erick Erickson was caught selling the same brand of cow manure that you are trying to sell me.

We now return you to Fox and Friends in progress.

There was no need to continue providing evidence I had you pegged.

[Cow Poke]

OF COURSE it is a source of funraising!

Democrats don't do anything fun.

People are angry that this happened.

Yeah, me, too!

Now you are saying that it is an outright lie.

No, sir - you saying that I'm saying it is an outright lie would be an outright lie.
I NEVER said that, and have consistently called it a riot, and I'm in favor of everybody who broke the law being charged and prosecuted (but to the same extent as any other rioter would be).

I realize that you have to deny the insurrection riot and minimize it.

No, sir - it was a riot - WAY out of control.

This lets you support your orange leader for reasons of your own.

Jesus Christ is my leader, Timothy - I just don't lose my ever-lovin' mind over a mere man like some of you do.

You and OBP can have Trump.

I know I don't want him, and I'm pretty sure OBP feels the same way.

Good luck

I don't believe in luck.

and have a good day.

To me, every day is a good day!

[Timothy]

My apologies, I didn't know you were here merely to troll.

Carry on.

Thank you. I just thought it was note worthy that Erick Erickson was caught selling the same brand of cow manure that you are trying to sell me.

We now return you to Fox and Friends in progress.

[Timothy]

Weaponizing the Jan6 Riot by the left and maximizing it for political gain has been a major source of fundraising, including repeating outright lies that had already been proven false.

OF COURSE it is a source of funraising! People are angry that this happened. Now you are saying that it is an outright lie. I realize that you have to deny the insurrection riot and minimize it. This lets you support your orange leader for reasons of your own. You and OBP can have Trump. Good luck and have a good day.

[One Bad Pig]

This is interesting:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...299b4aaf&ei=44

I didn't realize that minimizing the insurrection of January 6th was a MAGA right wing talking point. I guess it has to be, otherwise the orange savior is shown in a poor light, and they can't have that.

My apologies, I didn't know you were here merely to troll.

Carry on.

[Cow Poke]

This is interesting:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...299b4aaf&ei=44

I didn't realize that minimizing the insurrection of January 6th was a MAGA right wing talking point. I guess it has to be, otherwise the orange savior is shown in a poor light, and they can't have that.

Weaponizing the Jan6 Riot by the left and maximizing it for political gain has been a major source of fundraising, including repeating outright lies that had already been proven false.

[Timothy]

Right back atcha, champ. There is indeed a side which wants to minimize what happened. I'm not on that side. There is also a side which wants to exaggerate what happened. I'm not on that side either. I agree, the facts don't care about my feelings - which is why I'm going to decline your offer to believe whatever I want.

January 6th happened. It was a riot. It was stupid, and those who took part merited punishment - in line with the punishment received by other rioters, both there and elsewhere. Calling it an insurrection is an insult to the very idea of an insurrection. the "insurrectionists" didn't kill anybody, didn't even attempt to kill anybody, didn't attempt to disrupt - much less overthrow - the government, didn't attempt to even take anyone hostage, generally respected, rather than destroyed, government property once they got inside....

I stand by my earlier assessment, your emotively dismissive reply notwithstanding. The irony of you accusing me of going by my feelings is rich indeed.

This is interesting:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...299b4aaf&ei=44

I didn't realize that minimizing the insurrection of January 6th was a MAGA right wing talking point. I guess it has to be, otherwise the orange savior is shown in a poor light, and they can't have that.

[One Bad Pig]

Food for thought:

[E]very one of us as a Christian, as an anointed one, as someone who has the Holy Spirit working within us and through us, carries the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, with us wherever we go. And a lot of times this gets expressed negatively, when it’s talked about in popular circles. This is “The Holy Spirit dwells in you. Are you going to go into a movie theater at an R-rated movie!?” or “Are you going to hang out with these ne’er-do-wells? Are you going to smoke and chew and dance with girls who do?” And there is precedent for that. I say that obviously with some levity, but St. Paul comes out and asks, “Will you join the members of Christ to a prostitute?” so there is biblical warrant for that kind of negative approach to that.

But I think very neglected and more important is the positive element of that, that bringing the Spirit of God with us out into the world, out of paradise and out into the world—the world where there is chaos, the world where there is death, the world where there is darkness—is like carrying a candle with us out into the darkness, like carrying a torch with us out into the darkness. This is what I think St. John is getting at in 1 John 4:4, when he says, “Greater is he who is in me than he who is in the world.” There’s a lot of spirits out there in the world, but the one who is within us is greater and more powerful infinitely than any of them.

So on a very practical level, when we come into a place, into a community, into our families, into our workplaces, into our school communities, whatever it is—when we come there and we bring the Holy Spirit with us, not just sort of de facto because we identify as Christians, but in the sense that we’re working in repentance and faith to bring out and bring to maturity the fruit of the Spirit in our life, that that presence and activity of the Holy Spirit begins to transform the communities and the world around us, in precisely this way: by driving out those other spirits, by driving out those other agencies, those other principalities and powers, those other things that are acting upon us and the people we love and the people we work with and the people we spend time with. It pushes them out and replaces them with the presence of God himself.

When we bring love into a situation where there is hatred and bitterness and anger, and it’s real love—it’s not us saying platitudes, it’s not us saying, “Hey, can’t we all just love each other? Don’t worry, be happy,” but manifesting the love of God toward people, the real, deep love and compassion and kindness and care of God toward people; when we bring a real sense of peace and we make peace between people, then the spirit that’s been there, putting people at odds with each other, spirits of dissension and bitterness, they’re driven out. Then, behold how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity. And this is the concrete way— It is concrete. We can’t change the world in the sense that I can point my finger by magic at a chair and turn it into a table, but, as we’ve talked about, the world we all live in is made up more of our perceptions and intuitions and experiences than it is those hard and fast things that we can’t change.

So through just one person who’s honestly striving every day to follow Christ, both in keeping commandments and in repenting when not— One of the most powerful ways to completely transform a social dynamic is to apologize, to actually accept the blame for our failures, to actually be honest about them and apologize. So repentance is a big part of this, too. But one person doing that can transform a whole system, can transform a whole workplace, can transform a whole dynamic. And it’s when we do that that people see Christ in us. It’s when we do that, not win arguments, that people are drawn to find Christ in his Church, and as they do that they start to become Christians as well, and they start to make an honest effort to follow Christ. And some of us who have been Christians our whole lives but maybe aren’t making an honest effort right now are inspired by seeing those who do to start making further efforts ourselves.

And slowly, slowly, piece by piece, big systems can be transformed. If you don’t believe that’s true, I will once again point you to history, where a bunch of peasants and fishermen, in a backwater of the Roman Empire—it took them 300 years, but—completely transformed society, culture, politics, everything, just by each one of them being willing to follow Christ, whether that meant life or death, whether that meant glory or dishonor, but they made that honest effort every day. And through them the Spirit—the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God—came to fill a whole empire and change it. And it can do that again, but we don’t start by trying to stage some kind of Christian revolution. We’ve seen how that goes. We do that by each of us, in our place, in the place where God has put us—in the family he’s put us in, in the occupation he’s put us in, in the church community he’s put us in—making these everyday, day-to-day efforts to love, to be at peace, to experience real joy, to be kind, to be good, to be gentle, to be faithful, to exercise self-control.

We as Christians will have far more impact if we simply make the collective effort to live our lives for Christ, manifesting the fruits of the Spirit, than by championing this or that politician ("put not your trust in princes or sons of men, in whom there is no salvation") or party who will make laws in accordance with what we want or making "seeker sensitive" churches which attempt to look enticing to the world in order to draw people in.

[Sparko]

Meanwhile, the sun still comes up in the morning, the birds still sing, my grandchildren still delight me, I love breakfasts with my wife (especially while watching the sunrise), and I don't even have the slightest contempt for those who are absolutely obsessed with Trump.

I think having three branches of government and presidential term limits and the terms only 4 years is probably the best thing the US has going for it. No one person can make too many changes or take too much power in that amount of time. It causes some gridlock, but that's better than having to deal with the same leaders on an ongoing basis, like Canada has to deal with.

[Thoughtful Monk]

The battleground for the pro-life movement seems to be shifting to a local level anyway with Trump declining to endorse a national ban. (In fairness to him, it probably is politically impossible anyway and he knows it.) I daresay most of us can probably do more to prevent abortions to do what CP's church does on the ground anyway than to hope our vote changes it.

Well said. Especially in the People's Democratic Republic of New York, there's no chance that the Legislator would pass any form of abortion restrictions, much less Governor Hochul actually signing the bill. We should be politically involved enough to say, "We don't agree with what the government is doing." while focusing on changing hearts and minds.

[KingsGambit]

Fair enough. There have been other recent similar levels of disruption which are not typically equated with insurrection, however.

I think there was some sort of incident on the state level in Tennessee that did lead to a couple of state legislators being expelled.

[One Bad Pig]

I don't think I agree with the notion that it wasn't supposed to disrupt the government. The practical effect was to delay the certification of the results (and the correlation is likely with the private pressuring of Pence not to accept them). This is a milder claim than outright overthrowing it, of course.

Fair enough. There have been other recent similar levels of disruption which are not typically equated with insurrection, however.