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This is where we come to delve into the biblical text. Theology is not our foremost thought, but we realize it is something that will be dealt with in nearly every conversation. Feel free to use the original languages to make your point (meaning Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic). This is an exegetical discussion area, so please limit topics to purely biblical ones.

This is not the section for debates between theists and atheists. While a theistic viewpoint is not required for discussion in this area, discussion does presuppose a respect for the integrity of the Biblical text (or the willingness to accept such a presupposition for discussion purposes) and a respect for the integrity of the faith of others and a lack of an agenda to undermine the faith of others.

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παρουσία (parousia) ― a survey

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  • #16
    Judith 10:18

    Context: Judith 10:17-18 (NRSV)
    They chose from their number a hundred men to accompany her and her maid, and they brought them to the tent of Holofernes. There was great excitement in the whole camp, for her arrival [παρουσία (parousia)] was reported from tent to tent. They came and gathered around her as she stood outside the tent of Holofernes, waiting until they told him about her.

    Comment


    • #17
      2 Maccabees 8:12

      Context: 2 Maccabees 8:12-13 [A New English Translation of the Septuagint (NETS)]:
      arrival [παρουσία (parousia)]

      Comment


      • #18
        2 Maccabees 15:21

        Context: 2 Maccabees 15:20-21 [A New English Translation of the Septuagint (NETS)]:
        When all were already looking forward to the imminent confrontation and the enemy was already coming near with the army drawn up in battle-order, the animals strategically stationed and the cavalry deployed on the flanks, Makkabaios observing the masses present [παρουσία (parousia)] and the varied supply of arms and the savagery of the elephants, stretched out his hands toward heaven and called upon the Lord who works wonders because he knew that it is not by arms, but as it seems good to God that he procures victory for this who are worthy.

        Comment


        • #19
          3 Maccabees 3:17

          Context: 3 Maccabees 3:12-18 [A New English Translation of the Septuagint (NETS)]:
          visit [παρουσία (parousia)] , they were in fact insincere, and when we expressed our desire to enter their shrine and honor it with beautiful and extraordinary votive offerings, 18 they, harboring an age old conceit, barred us from the entrance, and it was only on account of the beneficence that we show towards all people that they were spared the full force of our temper.

          Comment


          • #20
            1 Corinthians 16:17

            Context: 1 Corinthians 16:15-18 [Young's Literal Translation (YLT)]:
            15 And I entreat you, brethren, ye have known the household of Stephanas, that it is the first-fruit of Achaia, and to the ministration to the saints they did set themselves -- 16 that ye also be subject to such, and to every one who is working with [us] and laboring; 17 and I rejoice over the presence [παρουσία (parousia)] of Stephanas, and Fortunatus, and Achaicus, because the lack of you did these fill up; 18 for they did refresh my spirit and yours; acknowledge ye, therefore, those who [are] such.

            Comment


            • #21
              2 Corinthians 10:10

              Context: 2 Corinthians 10:7-10 [Young's Literal Translation (YLT)]:
              7 The things in presence do ye see? if any one hath trusted in himself to be Christ's, this let him reckon again from himself, that according as he is Christ's, so also we [are] Christ's; 8 for even if also anything more abundantly I shall boast concerning our authority, that the Lord gave us for building up, and not for casting you down, I shall not be ashamed; 9 that I may not seem as if I would terrify you through the letters, 10 `because the letters indeed ― saith one ― [are] weighty and strong, and the bodily presence [παρουσία (parousia)] weak, and the speech despicable.' 11 This one ― let him reckon thus: that such as we are in word, through letters, being absent, such also, being present, [we are] in deed.

              Comment


              • #22
                Philippians 1:26

                Context: Philippians 1:19-26 [Young's Literal Translation (YLT)]:
                19 For I have known that this shall fall out to me for salvation, through your supplication, and the supply of the Spirit of Christ Jesus, 20 according to my earnest expectation and hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, and in all freedom, as always, also now Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether through life or through death, 21 for to me to live [is] Christ, and to die gain. 22 And if to live in the flesh [is] to me a fruit of work, then what shall I choose? I know not; 23 for I am pressed by the two, having the desire to depart, and to be with Christ, for it is far better, 24 and to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account, 25 and of this being persuaded, I have known that I shall remain and continue with you all, to your advancement and joy of the faith, 26 that your boasting may abound in Christ Jesus in me through my presence [παρουσία (parousia)] again to you.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Philippians 2:12

                  Context: Philippians 2:12-18 [Young's Literal Translation (YLT)]:
                  12 So that, my beloved, as ye always obey, not as in my presence [παρουσία (parousia)] only, but now much more in my absence, with fear and trembling your own salvation work out, 13 for God it is who is working in you both to will and to work for His good pleasure. 14 All things do without murmurings and reasonings, 15 that ye may become blameless and harmless, children of God, unblemished in the midst of a generation crooked and perverse, among whom ye do appear as luminaries in the world, 16 the word of life holding forth, for rejoicing to me in regard to a day of Christ, that not in vain did I run, nor in vain did I labour; 17 but if also I am poured forth upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I rejoice and joy with you all, 18 because of this do ye also rejoice and joy with me.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Matthew 24:3

                    Context: Matthew 24:1-3 [Young's Literal Translation (YLT)]:
                    24 And having gone forth, Jesus departed from the temple, and his disciples came near to show him the buildings of the temple, 2 and Jesus said to them, `Do ye not see all these? verily I say to you, There may not be left here a stone upon a stone, that shall not be thrown down.' 3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence [παρουσία (parousia)], and of the full end of the age?'

                    Here is where futuristic presuppositions become challenged by exegetical and linguistic facts.

                    The term παρουσία (parousia) has traditionally been translated "coming" in this and many other verses, and it has been taken for granted that in said verses the word is a technical term for the second coming of Christ. However, T. Francis Glasson ― in his doctoral thesis published in book form under the title The Second Advent: the Origin of the New Testament Doctrine (Epworth Press, 2nd and revised edition, 1947), used copies of the original publication, or modern reprints, available at Amazon.com ― has presented an exegetical basis for a challenge to futuristic presuppositions. And John A. T. Robinson ― in Jesus and His Coming (Westminster Press, 1957, 1979), used copies and modern reprints available at Amazon.com ― has categorically endorsed and expanded on Dr. Glasson's thesis.

                    Readers of this thread can find the exegetical case laid out in the books above. I propose to focus on the linguistic facts in the Greek texts as the thread progresses.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Matthew 24:27

                      Context: Matthew 24:15-28 [Young's Literal Translation (YLT)]:
                      15 `Whenever, therefore, ye may see the abomination of the desolation, that was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever is reading let him observe)
                      16 then those in Judea ― let them flee to the mounts;
                      17 he on the house-top ― let him not come down to take up any thing out of his house;
                      18 and he in the field ― let him not turn back to take his garments.
                      19 `And wo to those with child, and to those giving suck in those days;
                      20 and pray ye that your flight may not be in winter, nor on a sabbath;
                      21 for there shall be then great tribulation, such as was not from the beginning of the world till now, no, nor may be.
                      22 And if those days were not shortened, no flesh would have been saved; but because of the chosen, shall those days be shortened.
                      23 `Then if any one may say to you, Lo, here [is] the Christ! or here! ye may not believe;
                      24 for there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and they shall give great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, also the chosen.
                      25 Lo, I did tell you beforehand.
                      26 `If therefore they may say to you, Lo, in the wilderness he is, ye may not go forth; lo, in the inner chambers, ye may not believe;
                      27 for as the lightning doth come forth from the east, and doth appear unto the west, so shall be also the presence [παρουσία (parousia)] of the Son of Man'

                      I am using Young's Literal Translation (YLT) to emphasize the etymological meaning of the word παρουσία (parousia); however, some nuance is required depending on the context in which the word occurs.

                      For instance in some contexts in ancient Greek the word παρουσία (parousia) was used for a formal visit by a dignitary (king, governor, etc.) or for the manifestation of a divine figure.

                      That said, the word παρουσία (parousia) is confusinglycome".

                      That is, most English versions, with regard to references to Jesus, render the word παρουσία (parousia) as "coming", as though the word were a synonym for the participle (ἐρχόμενον) of the verb ἔρχομαι ― which it is NOT.

                      The word παρουσία (parousiacoming".

                      R. T. France, in his 1985 commentary (TNTC: Eerdmans) says "... the mention of the parousia here [in Matt 24:27] is precisely in order to indicate that it is not to be looked for in the chaotic events of the Jewish War, but will be something of quite a different character."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Matthew 24:37, 39

                        Context: Matthew 24:36-44 [Young's Literal Translation (YLT)]:
                        36 `And concerning that day and the hour no one hath known -- not even the messengers of the heavens -- except my Father only; 37 and as the days of Noah -- so shall be also the presence [παρουσία (parousia)] of the Son of Man; 38 for as they were, in the days before the flood, eating, and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, till the day Noah entered into the ark, 39 and they did not know till the flood came and took all away; so shall be also the presence [παρουσία (parousia)] of the Son of Man. 40 Then two men shall be in the field, the one is received, and the one is left; 41 two women shall be grinding in the mill, one is received, and one is left. 42 `Watch ye therefore, because ye have not known in what hour your Lord doth come [ἔρχεται]; 43 and this know, that if the master of the house had known in what watch the thief doth come [ἔρχεται], he had watched, and not suffered his house to be broken through; 44 because of this also ye, become ye ready, because in what hour ye do not think, the Son of Man doth come [ἔρχεται].

                        Well, well, well.

                        My chagrin is exceeded only by my happiness in having a difference between myself and the two authors I cited above resolved in their favor. The title of the book by Robinson, Jesus and His Coming has in it a rendering of "Parousia" as "Coming" ― a fact about which I was puzzled until now.

                        The context above in this post includes two occurrences of the noun παρουσία (parousia) and three occurrences of the verb ἔρχομαι (erchomai) all used synonymously ― thus exposing me as having been guilty of "one of the most enduring" (D. A. Carson's words) of exegetical errors: the root fallacy.

                        I let Young (author of Young's Literal Translation) and my own predisposition and preconceptions lure me into committing the root fallacy in a major way in this thread. I repent and rejoice in the removal of scales from my eyes.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          1 Corinthians 15:23

                          Context: 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (NRSV)
                          20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have died. 21 For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human being; 22 for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming [παρουσία (parousia)]

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            1 Thessalonians 2:19

                            Context: 1 Thessalonians 2:17-20 (NRSV)
                            coming [παρουσία (parousia)]? Is it not you? 20 Yes, you are our glory and joy!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              1 Thessalonians 3:13

                              Context: 1 Thessalonians 3:11-13 (NRSV)
                              1Th. 3:11 Now may our God and Father himself and our Lord Jesus direct our way to you. 12 And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love for one another and for all, just as we abound in love for you. 13 And may he so strengthen your hearts in holiness that you may be blameless before our God and Father at the coming [παρουσία (parousia)] of our Lord Jesus with all his saints.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                1 Thessalonians 4:15

                                Context: 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (NRSV)
                                1Th. 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. 15 For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming [παρουσία (parousia)]

                                For exegesis of the text above, I recommend Jesus and His Coming (Westminster Press, 1979), by John A. T. Robinson ― 2012 reprint available at Amazon.com.

                                Comment

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