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  • Billboards, Politics, and Beliefs

    I am not sure exactly where this best fits - it crosses a few domains. I trust the mods to relocate it if they see fit.

    Yesterday, I made a trip from Woodbine, GA to Selma, NC. Almost the entire trip was made on Interstate 95, where I was treated to a seemingly endless stream of billboards.

    First, I would like to thank Vermont for banning these behemoths and leaving the state more pristine. I wish more (all?) states would follow your example.

    Second, I quickly noticed that there were four basic themes (I left one out in my travel log): food and fuel, adult stores, fireworks stores, and religion. I found that an interesting combination of themes, but I want to focus on the religious signs.

    I should note that the vast majority of the religious ones seem to come from two sources. The first is https://gospelbillboards.org/. Their billboards are distinct because they all have the 83-FOR-TRUTH phone number clearly displayed. Just on a whim, I decided to call that number this morning; it is basically a religious help line. No, I didn’t talk to anyone. The second source is a single man: Daniel Brothers. Professionally, he puts up log cabins. Personally, he is a Christian who spends up to half of his annual salary on these billboards. They are distinctive, with big red letters on a yellow background (https://apnews.com/general-news-a30f...5ca74bbca233cb).

    Here’s a sampling of the ones I saw as I drove (I dictated them into Siri).
    • Come out now and say Jesus’s name!
    • Find peace. Surrender to Jesus
    • I said, REPENT!
    • JESUS!
    • Jesus’s Blood (I wanted to fix the syntax)
    • Jesus is the answer!
    • Jesus rebukes your demons!
    • Jesus saves
    • Judgement Day is a breath away
    • Life is short, eternity isn’t
    • No Jesus, No Life! Dead already!
    • Save me, Jesus
    • Selling your soul for what?
    • Shackled by lust? Jesus sets free.
    • There IS evidence for God!
    • When you die, you WILL meet god!
    • Where are you going? Heaven or Hell (complete with blue skies and flames)

    I certainly cannot fault Mr. Brothers for his passion and commitment; there is a man putting his money where his mouth is. He apparently makes $50-70K per year and spends half of it on these billboards, feeling an obligation to “save the lost.”

    I was struck by a theme, especially in Mr. Brother’s billboards: fear. Mr. Brothers apparently thinks that the best way to “save” people is to scare them into believing. Gospel Billboards is not innocent of this approach either. I find myself reminded of Pascal’s Wager. Derived by Blaise Pascal in the 17th century, the wager suggests that the logical person will believe in god and live as if he exists. This is due to a simple analysis of a truth table of two statements: “God exists” and “I believe in god.” There are four possible combinations:
    1. God does not exist and I do not believe in god: no harm, no foul. I am living in touch with reality.
    2. God does not exist and I do believe in god: I am wasting time and living in a bit of a delusion
    3. God exists and I do not believe if god: Eternal damnation
    4. God exists and I do believe in god: Eternal salvation

    Blaise would argue that believing in god either results in a bit of wasted time or eternal salvation, whereas not believing in god either results in living in touch with reality or eternal damnation. To Blaise, the greatest risk is not believing because it has that “eternal damnation” possibility.

    What Blaise and the fear-based billboards ignore is a simple reality: fear-based arguments say nothing about reality. They are not rooted in uncovering the truth. They are 100% rooted in feelings. All they say is, “you should be so afraid of this possible outcome that you should believe.”

    Fear is an important emotion. It can keep us from making some really stupid mistakes. It keeps us from walking too close to the edge of that cliff. It keeps us from playing with that grenade. It keeps us from eating that unrecognized mushroom. But as a basis for belief, it truly sucks. It can lead us into a snakepit of conspiracies and ridiculousness. We are touching, here, on a reality that I believe has a great deal to do with our current political climate.

    Conservatism is a worldview based in fear. It fears change. Change is messy. Change is an unknown. Conservatism wants things to be as they have been. The problem with this is that locking the world into a fixed configuration out of fear also locks into place all of the ills of that world.

    Liberalism is a worldview that embraces change without fear. It wants to constantly improve and grow. The problem with that is that unbridled change can become change for its own sake. In a quest to improve, it can introduce a whole new set of ills into our world.

    This is why conservatism and liberalism are better together. The latter drives the world forward, while the former provides the cautionary brakes and reflection. Of course, that cannot happen if the two each believe the other is unnecessary. It certainly cannot happen if each sees the other as an enemy to be vanquished.

    But fear is not a reasonable basis for belief. Fear is an emotion. It may or may not be linked to anything real or true. What is real or true is arrived at by observation, experimentation, and the application of reason. It doesn’t matter if the worst outcome in Pascal’s Wager is “eternal damnation.” If there is no god (or if there is a god that does not subscribe to eternal damnation), that outcome doesn’t even exist. We must and should believe what we have found to be true, reject what we have found to be untrue, and hold judgment on what we cannot determine to be true or untrue.

    Another common theme from these posts is the claim that, somehow, Jesus will save us, make us better, or provide “the answer.” This is perhaps one of the most psychologically compelling part of the Christian message, and I suspect it has a great deal to do with the success of Christianity over the centuries. We all have fallen short of our own ideals. The more we fall short of those ideals, the more guilt we tend to carry. Imagine the relief that comes with knowing that the all knowing, all powerful, all good creator of the universe is willing to forgive you your worst transgressions and embrace you in love if you will only embrace belief in this being. What an amazingly transformative experience this must be for so many. If this being, with the whole universe before them, can take specific concern about this tiny human being, what is there to be afraid of?

    But, again, this is belief based on feeling - and feelings can and do mislead us regularly. Truth is an alignment between what is spoken or thought and what is real. It’s as simple as that. “Jesus is the Truth” is a meaningless sentence. “Jesus is the Answer” is a claim that ignores the reality that no one has specified the question.

    We live in a world where we are being blasted with memes, but memes are not new. Humans have been spouting memes for a long, long time. Memes are like hyperbole, gossip, and stereotypes; they contain a germ of truth nested in a context of misrepresentation and misinformation (or perhaps even disrepresentation and disinformation).

    So, as you read those bulletin boards, or look at those political memes, or hear those over-the-top claims, remember to ask yourself if what you are reading is trying to drive you through feelings (especially fear) and if it is making any claim that can be shown/known to be true.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  • #2
    Seems this thread would be better suited for Apologetics.

    Anyway, when it comes to evangelizing through "fear", I think the seat belt analogy applies: "If you don't wear a seat belt, then in the event of a vehicle accident, you could be seriously injured or killed." Does the fact that this truth might be frightening to some stop it from being true? Of course not. Is it a good reason to wear a seat belt? Absolutely.

    As for positive reinforcement, again, what's the problem? "Eating a balanced diet of nutritious foods will make you a healthier person." Come on, who doesn't want to be healthy? Oh, but that sounds like an emotional appeal, doesn't it, so according to you, we should reject it. After all, the statement doesn't clearly define what a balanced diet is, or specify in what way one will be healthier, so just toss it all out, right?

    I honestly don't know what you expect from a billboard meant to be read while zipping down the highway at 70 miles per hour. Of course you're not going to get an in-depth theological treatise complete with historical facts and textual references, but that doesn't make a short statement like "Jesus is the answer" any less true. The kind of person that message will resonate with already knows the question, and the Holy Spirit will do the rest. As the Apostle Paul wrote:

    Scripture Verse: 1 Corinthians 3

    What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth.

    © Copyright Original Source

    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      I am not sure exactly where this best fits - it crosses a few domains. I trust the mods to relocate it if they see fit.

      Yesterday, I made a trip from Woodbine, GA to Selma, NC. Almost the entire trip was made on Interstate 95, where I was treated to a seemingly endless stream of billboards.

      First, I would like to thank Vermont for banning these behemoths and leaving the state more pristine. I wish more (all?) states would follow your example.

      Second, I quickly noticed that there were four basic themes (I left one out in my travel log): food and fuel, adult stores, fireworks stores, and religion. I found that an interesting combination of themes, but I want to focus on the religious signs.

      I should note that the vast majority of the religious ones seem to come from two sources. The first is https://gospelbillboards.org/. Their billboards are distinct because they all have the 83-FOR-TRUTH phone number clearly displayed. Just on a whim, I decided to call that number this morning; it is basically a religious help line. No, I didn’t talk to anyone. The second source is a single man: Daniel Brothers. Professionally, he puts up log cabins. Personally, he is a Christian who spends up to half of his annual salary on these billboards. They are distinctive, with big red letters on a yellow background (https://apnews.com/general-news-a30f...5ca74bbca233cb).

      Here’s a sampling of the ones I saw as I drove (I dictated them into Siri).
      • Come out now and say Jesus’s name!
      • Find peace. Surrender to Jesus
      • I said, REPENT!
      • JESUS!
      • Jesus’s Blood (I wanted to fix the syntax)
      • Jesus is the answer!
      • Jesus rebukes your demons!
      • Jesus saves
      • Judgement Day is a breath away
      • Life is short, eternity isn’t
      • No Jesus, No Life! Dead already!
      • Save me, Jesus
      • Selling your soul for what?
      • Shackled by lust? Jesus sets free.
      • There IS evidence for God!
      • When you die, you WILL meet god!
      • Where are you going? Heaven or Hell (complete with blue skies and flames)

      I certainly cannot fault Mr. Brothers for his passion and commitment; there is a man putting his money where his mouth is. He apparently makes $50-70K per year and spends half of it on these billboards, feeling an obligation to “save the lost.”

      I was struck by a theme, especially in Mr. Brother’s billboards: fear. Mr. Brothers apparently thinks that the best way to “save” people is to scare them into believing. Gospel Billboards is not innocent of this approach either. I find myself reminded of Pascal’s Wager. Derived by Blaise Pascal in the 17th century, the wager suggests that the logical person will believe in god and live as if he exists. This is due to a simple analysis of a truth table of two statements: “God exists” and “I believe in god.” There are four possible combinations:
      1. God does not exist and I do not believe in god: no harm, no foul. I am living in touch with reality.
      2. God does not exist and I do believe in god: I am wasting time and living in a bit of a delusion
      3. God exists and I do not believe if god: Eternal damnation
      4. God exists and I do believe in god: Eternal salvation

      Blaise would argue that believing in god either results in a bit of wasted time or eternal salvation, whereas not believing in god either results in living in touch with reality or eternal damnation. To Blaise, the greatest risk is not believing because it has that “eternal damnation” possibility.

      What Blaise and the fear-based billboards ignore is a simple reality: fear-based arguments say nothing about reality. They are not rooted in uncovering the truth. They are 100% rooted in feelings. All they say is, “you should be so afraid of this possible outcome that you should believe.”

      Fear is an important emotion. It can keep us from making some really stupid mistakes. It keeps us from walking too close to the edge of that cliff. It keeps us from playing with that grenade. It keeps us from eating that unrecognized mushroom. But as a basis for belief, it truly sucks. It can lead us into a snakepit of conspiracies and ridiculousness. We are touching, here, on a reality that I believe has a great deal to do with our current political climate.

      Conservatism is a worldview based in fear. It fears change. Change is messy. Change is an unknown. Conservatism wants things to be as they have been. The problem with this is that locking the world into a fixed configuration out of fear also locks into place all of the ills of that world.

      Liberalism is a worldview that embraces change without fear. It wants to constantly improve and grow. The problem with that is that unbridled change can become change for its own sake. In a quest to improve, it can introduce a whole new set of ills into our world.

      This is why conservatism and liberalism are better together. The latter drives the world forward, while the former provides the cautionary brakes and reflection. Of course, that cannot happen if the two each believe the other is unnecessary. It certainly cannot happen if each sees the other as an enemy to be vanquished.

      But fear is not a reasonable basis for belief. Fear is an emotion. It may or may not be linked to anything real or true. What is real or true is arrived at by observation, experimentation, and the application of reason. It doesn’t matter if the worst outcome in Pascal’s Wager is “eternal damnation.” If there is no god (or if there is a god that does not subscribe to eternal damnation), that outcome doesn’t even exist. We must and should believe what we have found to be true, reject what we have found to be untrue, and hold judgment on what we cannot determine to be true or untrue.

      Another common theme from these posts is the claim that, somehow, Jesus will save us, make us better, or provide “the answer.” This is perhaps one of the most psychologically compelling part of the Christian message, and I suspect it has a great deal to do with the success of Christianity over the centuries. We all have fallen short of our own ideals. The more we fall short of those ideals, the more guilt we tend to carry. Imagine the relief that comes with knowing that the all knowing, all powerful, all good creator of the universe is willing to forgive you your worst transgressions and embrace you in love if you will only embrace belief in this being. What an amazingly transformative experience this must be for so many. If this being, with the whole universe before them, can take specific concern about this tiny human being, what is there to be afraid of?

      But, again, this is belief based on feeling - and feelings can and do mislead us regularly. Truth is an alignment between what is spoken or thought and what is real. It’s as simple as that. “Jesus is the Truth” is a meaningless sentence. “Jesus is the Answer” is a claim that ignores the reality that no one has specified the question.

      We live in a world where we are being blasted with memes, but memes are not new. Humans have been spouting memes for a long, long time. Memes are like hyperbole, gossip, and stereotypes; they contain a germ of truth nested in a context of misrepresentation and misinformation (or perhaps even disrepresentation and disinformation).

      So, as you read those bulletin boards, or look at those political memes, or hear those over-the-top claims, remember to ask yourself if what you are reading is trying to drive you through feelings (especially fear) and if it is making any claim that can be shown/known to be true.
      Thanks for bringing this up. It’s not talked about enough. Especially the anti-evo ones:

      IMG_3677.jpeg

      I wish I had the area code for that one. I’m sure the message is a stirring critique of the basis of biology.

      On the rare occasions I drive through the Bible Belt, I’m fascinated by conservative billboard culture and wonder about the groups and individuals who pay good money to advertise their deep feelings.
      Last edited by whag; 06-09-2024, 03:35 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        IMG_3677.jpeg
        Attached Files

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          I am not sure exactly where this best fits - it crosses a few domains. I trust the mods to relocate it if they see fit.

          Yesterday, I made a trip from Woodbine, GA to Selma, NC. Almost the entire trip was made on Interstate 95, where I was treated to a seemingly endless stream of billboards.

          First, I would like to thank Vermont for banning these behemoths and leaving the state more pristine. I wish more (all?) states would follow your example.

          Second, I quickly noticed that there were four basic themes (I left one out in my travel log): food and fuel, adult stores, fireworks stores, and religion. I found that an interesting combination of themes, but I want to focus on the religious signs.

          I should note that the vast majority of the religious ones seem to come from two sources. The first is https://gospelbillboards.org/. Their billboards are distinct because they all have the 83-FOR-TRUTH phone number clearly displayed. Just on a whim, I decided to call that number this morning; it is basically a religious help line. No, I didn’t talk to anyone. The second source is a single man: Daniel Brothers. Professionally, he puts up log cabins. Personally, he is a Christian who spends up to half of his annual salary on these billboards. They are distinctive, with big red letters on a yellow background (https://apnews.com/general-news-a30f...5ca74bbca233cb).

          Here’s a sampling of the ones I saw as I drove (I dictated them into Siri).
          • Come out now and say Jesus’s name!
          • Find peace. Surrender to Jesus
          • I said, REPENT!
          • JESUS!
          • Jesus’s Blood (I wanted to fix the syntax)
          • Jesus is the answer!
          • Jesus rebukes your demons!
          • Jesus saves
          • Judgement Day is a breath away
          • Life is short, eternity isn’t
          • No Jesus, No Life! Dead already!
          • Save me, Jesus
          • Selling your soul for what?
          • Shackled by lust? Jesus sets free.
          • There IS evidence for God!
          • When you die, you WILL meet god!
          • Where are you going? Heaven or Hell (complete with blue skies and flames)

          I certainly cannot fault Mr. Brothers for his passion and commitment; there is a man putting his money where his mouth is. He apparently makes $50-70K per year and spends half of it on these billboards, feeling an obligation to “save the lost.”

          I was struck by a theme, especially in Mr. Brother’s billboards: fear. Mr. Brothers apparently thinks that the best way to “save” people is to scare them into believing. Gospel Billboards is not innocent of this approach either. I find myself reminded of Pascal’s Wager. Derived by Blaise Pascal in the 17th century, the wager suggests that the logical person will believe in god and live as if he exists. This is due to a simple analysis of a truth table of two statements: “God exists” and “I believe in god.” There are four possible combinations:
          1. God does not exist and I do not believe in god: no harm, no foul. I am living in touch with reality.
          2. God does not exist and I do believe in god: I am wasting time and living in a bit of a delusion
          3. God exists and I do not believe if god: Eternal damnation
          4. God exists and I do believe in god: Eternal salvation

          Blaise would argue that believing in god either results in a bit of wasted time or eternal salvation, whereas not believing in god either results in living in touch with reality or eternal damnation. To Blaise, the greatest risk is not believing because it has that “eternal damnation” possibility.

          What Blaise and the fear-based billboards ignore is a simple reality: fear-based arguments say nothing about reality. They are not rooted in uncovering the truth. They are 100% rooted in feelings. All they say is, “you should be so afraid of this possible outcome that you should believe.”

          Fear is an important emotion. It can keep us from making some really stupid mistakes. It keeps us from walking too close to the edge of that cliff. It keeps us from playing with that grenade. It keeps us from eating that unrecognized mushroom. But as a basis for belief, it truly sucks. It can lead us into a snakepit of conspiracies and ridiculousness. We are touching, here, on a reality that I believe has a great deal to do with our current political climate.

          Conservatism is a worldview based in fear. It fears change. Change is messy. Change is an unknown. Conservatism wants things to be as they have been. The problem with this is that locking the world into a fixed configuration out of fear also locks into place all of the ills of that world.

          Liberalism is a worldview that embraces change without fear. It wants to constantly improve and grow. The problem with that is that unbridled change can become change for its own sake. In a quest to improve, it can introduce a whole new set of ills into our world.

          This is why conservatism and liberalism are better together. The latter drives the world forward, while the former provides the cautionary brakes and reflection. Of course, that cannot happen if the two each believe the other is unnecessary. It certainly cannot happen if each sees the other as an enemy to be vanquished.

          But fear is not a reasonable basis for belief. Fear is an emotion. It may or may not be linked to anything real or true. What is real or true is arrived at by observation, experimentation, and the application of reason. It doesn’t matter if the worst outcome in Pascal’s Wager is “eternal damnation.” If there is no god (or if there is a god that does not subscribe to eternal damnation), that outcome doesn’t even exist. We must and should believe what we have found to be true, reject what we have found to be untrue, and hold judgment on what we cannot determine to be true or untrue.

          Another common theme from these posts is the claim that, somehow, Jesus will save us, make us better, or provide “the answer.” This is perhaps one of the most psychologically compelling part of the Christian message, and I suspect it has a great deal to do with the success of Christianity over the centuries. We all have fallen short of our own ideals. The more we fall short of those ideals, the more guilt we tend to carry. Imagine the relief that comes with knowing that the all knowing, all powerful, all good creator of the universe is willing to forgive you your worst transgressions and embrace you in love if you will only embrace belief in this being. What an amazingly transformative experience this must be for so many. If this being, with the whole universe before them, can take specific concern about this tiny human being, what is there to be afraid of?

          But, again, this is belief based on feeling - and feelings can and do mislead us regularly. Truth is an alignment between what is spoken or thought and what is real. It’s as simple as that. “Jesus is the Truth” is a meaningless sentence. “Jesus is the Answer” is a claim that ignores the reality that no one has specified the question.

          We live in a world where we are being blasted with memes, but memes are not new. Humans have been spouting memes for a long, long time. Memes are like hyperbole, gossip, and stereotypes; they contain a germ of truth nested in a context of misrepresentation and misinformation (or perhaps even disrepresentation and disinformation).

          So, as you read those bulletin boards, or look at those political memes, or hear those over-the-top claims, remember to ask yourself if what you are reading is trying to drive you through feelings (especially fear) and if it is making any claim that can be shown/known to be true.
          You've built a strawman of conservative beliefs. Don't expect many to engage with it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

            You've built a strawman of conservative beliefs. Don't expect many to engage with it.




            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              I am not sure exactly where this best fits - it crosses a few domains. I trust the mods to relocate it if they see fit.

              Yesterday, I made a trip from Woodbine, GA to Selma, NC. Almost the entire trip was made on Interstate 95, where I was treated to a seemingly endless stream of billboards.

              First, I would like to thank Vermont for banning these behemoths and leaving the state more pristine. I wish more (all?) states would follow your example.

              Second, I quickly noticed that there were four basic themes (I left one out in my travel log): food and fuel, adult stores, fireworks stores, and religion. I found that an interesting combination of themes, but I want to focus on the religious signs.

              I should note that the vast majority of the religious ones seem to come from two sources. The first is https://gospelbillboards.org/. Their billboards are distinct because they all have the 83-FOR-TRUTH phone number clearly displayed. Just on a whim, I decided to call that number this morning; it is basically a religious help line. No, I didn’t talk to anyone. The second source is a single man: Daniel Brothers. Professionally, he puts up log cabins. Personally, he is a Christian who spends up to half of his annual salary on these billboards. They are distinctive, with big red letters on a yellow background (https://apnews.com/general-news-a30f...5ca74bbca233cb).

              Here’s a sampling of the ones I saw as I drove (I dictated them into Siri).
              • Come out now and say Jesus’s name!
              • Find peace. Surrender to Jesus
              • I said, REPENT!
              • JESUS!
              • Jesus’s Blood (I wanted to fix the syntax)
              • Jesus is the answer!
              • Jesus rebukes your demons!
              • Jesus saves
              • Judgement Day is a breath away
              • Life is short, eternity isn’t
              • No Jesus, No Life! Dead already!
              • Save me, Jesus
              • Selling your soul for what?
              • Shackled by lust? Jesus sets free.
              • There IS evidence for God!
              • When you die, you WILL meet god!
              • Where are you going? Heaven or Hell (complete with blue skies and flames)

              I certainly cannot fault Mr. Brothers for his passion and commitment; there is a man putting his money where his mouth is. He apparently makes $50-70K per year and spends half of it on these billboards, feeling an obligation to “save the lost.”

              I was struck by a theme, especially in Mr. Brother’s billboards: fear. Mr. Brothers apparently thinks that the best way to “save” people is to scare them into believing. Gospel Billboards is not innocent of this approach either. I find myself reminded of Pascal’s Wager. Derived by Blaise Pascal in the 17th century, the wager suggests that the logical person will believe in god and live as if he exists. This is due to a simple analysis of a truth table of two statements: “God exists” and “I believe in god.” There are four possible combinations:
              1. God does not exist and I do not believe in god: no harm, no foul. I am living in touch with reality.
              2. God does not exist and I do believe in god: I am wasting time and living in a bit of a delusion
              3. God exists and I do not believe if god: Eternal damnation
              4. God exists and I do believe in god: Eternal salvation

              Blaise would argue that believing in god either results in a bit of wasted time or eternal salvation, whereas not believing in god either results in living in touch with reality or eternal damnation. To Blaise, the greatest risk is not believing because it has that “eternal damnation” possibility.

              What Blaise and the fear-based billboards ignore is a simple reality: fear-based arguments say nothing about reality. They are not rooted in uncovering the truth. They are 100% rooted in feelings. All they say is, “you should be so afraid of this possible outcome that you should believe.”

              Fear is an important emotion. It can keep us from making some really stupid mistakes. It keeps us from walking too close to the edge of that cliff. It keeps us from playing with that grenade. It keeps us from eating that unrecognized mushroom. But as a basis for belief, it truly sucks. It can lead us into a snakepit of conspiracies and ridiculousness. We are touching, here, on a reality that I believe has a great deal to do with our current political climate.

              Conservatism is a worldview based in fear. It fears change. Change is messy. Change is an unknown. Conservatism wants things to be as they have been. The problem with this is that locking the world into a fixed configuration out of fear also locks into place all of the ills of that world.

              Liberalism is a worldview that embraces change without fear. It wants to constantly improve and grow. The problem with that is that unbridled change can become change for its own sake. In a quest to improve, it can introduce a whole new set of ills into our world.

              This is why conservatism and liberalism are better together. The latter drives the world forward, while the former provides the cautionary brakes and reflection. Of course, that cannot happen if the two each believe the other is unnecessary. It certainly cannot happen if each sees the other as an enemy to be vanquished.

              But fear is not a reasonable basis for belief. Fear is an emotion. It may or may not be linked to anything real or true. What is real or true is arrived at by observation, experimentation, and the application of reason. It doesn’t matter if the worst outcome in Pascal’s Wager is “eternal damnation.” If there is no god (or if there is a god that does not subscribe to eternal damnation), that outcome doesn’t even exist. We must and should believe what we have found to be true, reject what we have found to be untrue, and hold judgment on what we cannot determine to be true or untrue.

              Another common theme from these posts is the claim that, somehow, Jesus will save us, make us better, or provide “the answer.” This is perhaps one of the most psychologically compelling part of the Christian message, and I suspect it has a great deal to do with the success of Christianity over the centuries. We all have fallen short of our own ideals. The more we fall short of those ideals, the more guilt we tend to carry. Imagine the relief that comes with knowing that the all knowing, all powerful, all good creator of the universe is willing to forgive you your worst transgressions and embrace you in love if you will only embrace belief in this being. What an amazingly transformative experience this must be for so many. If this being, with the whole universe before them, can take specific concern about this tiny human being, what is there to be afraid of?

              But, again, this is belief based on feeling - and feelings can and do mislead us regularly. Truth is an alignment between what is spoken or thought and what is real. It’s as simple as that. “Jesus is the Truth” is a meaningless sentence. “Jesus is the Answer” is a claim that ignores the reality that no one has specified the question.

              We live in a world where we are being blasted with memes, but memes are not new. Humans have been spouting memes for a long, long time. Memes are like hyperbole, gossip, and stereotypes; they contain a germ of truth nested in a context of misrepresentation and misinformation (or perhaps even disrepresentation and disinformation).

              So, as you read those bulletin boards, or look at those political memes, or hear those over-the-top claims, remember to ask yourself if what you are reading is trying to drive you through feelings (especially fear) and if it is making any claim that can be shown/known to be true.
              It certainly shows that various religious groups are not short of money, while Mr Brothers enjoys spending his modest income on billboards.

              As with a lot of advertising I wonder how deep an impact it actually makes. I know that "recall" is very important for advertising and I am sure that others can remember slogans and music from adverts they saw years ago, but I certainly have never seen an advert and then acted on its sales pitch/advice.
              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Seems this thread would be better suited for Apologetics.

                Anyway, when it comes to evangelizing through "fear", I think the seat belt analogy applies: "If you don't wear a seat belt, then in the event of a vehicle accident, you could be seriously injured or killed." Does the fact that this truth might be frightening to some stop it from being true? Of course not. Is it a good reason to wear a seat belt? Absolutely.
                Perhaps Carp is too busy interfering in elections to have seen government funded and tobacco-settlement funded anti-smoking commercials. If the person in the CDC commercial had died by the time the it aired, it will say so.
                P1) If , then I win.

                P2)

                C) I win.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                  It certainly shows that various religious groups are not short of money, while Mr Brothers enjoys spending his modest income on billboards.

                  As with a lot of advertising I wonder how deep an impact it actually makes. I know that "recall" is very important for advertising and I am sure that others can remember slogans and music from adverts they saw years ago, but I certainly have never seen an advert and then acted on its sales pitch/advice.
                  Obviously a religious billboard is not going to appeal to thickheaded skeptics like you, carpe, and whag, but consider that you're not the target audience. These messages are not intended for scoffers but sincere seekers.

                  On that note, I think my favorite billboard said something to the effect of:

                  It's the Ten Commandments
                  Not the Ten Suggestions

                  And a variation of it:

                  What part of "Thou shall not"
                  don't you understand?
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                    Obviously a religious billboard is not going to appeal to thickheaded skeptics like you, carpe, and whag, but consider that you're not the target audience. These messages are not intended for scoffers but sincere seekers.
                    In other words, the credulous and gullible?

                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      In other words, the credulous and gullible?
                      Yes, in the same way only the credulous and gullible seek a doctor when they're sick.

                      Scripture Verse: Mark 2

                      And the scribes of the Pharisees, when they saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors, said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?” And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

                      © Copyright Original Source

                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                        Yes, in the same way only the credulous and gullible seek a doctor when they're sick.
                        What a ridiculous remark. However, it is noted that Drugs, Dames, Dudes, Depression, or Drink can often lead individuals to "Find the Lord".
                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          What a ridiculous remark. However, it is noted that Drugs, Dames, Dudes, Depression, or Drink can often lead individuals to "Find the Lord".
                          What's ridiculous about saying that the people who know they need help will be the ones to seek it?
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                            What's ridiculous about saying that the people who know they need help will be the ones to seek it?
                            The ridiculous aspect was comparing seeking religious solace with seeking medical help.
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                              Obviously a religious billboard is not going to appeal to thickheaded skeptics like you, carpe, and whag, but consider that you're not the target audience. These messages are not intended for scoffers but sincere seekers.

                              On that note, I think my favorite billboard said something to the effect of:

                              It's the Ten Commandments
                              Not the Ten Suggestions

                              And a variation of it:

                              What part of "Thou shall not"
                              don't you understand?
                              There is a Catholic priest in my state who puts up these billboards. Just to read it, is to say it to yourself.

                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment

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