Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

“We The People Convention” urges Trump declare Martial Law.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    False. The video speaks for itself. You can see the election workers send the observers away and then proceed to secretly count tens of thousands of ballots, including several cases worth that had been concealed under a table, all without witnesses present in violation of Georgia election law.

    I know you and other liberals are eager to handwave this away, but it was enough to compel Governor Kemp to order a full signature audit of ballots.

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronso...otage-n2581038
    Come back when it comes before a judge, and is judged to have "merit and found to be evidence." At present it is the work of an incompetent disbarred lawyer, and nothing more.

    He claims fraud on the level that could change the election results in several states. His unfounded dishonest assertions remain in contradiction of Barr's conclusions.

    Still waiting . . .
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

      Do you know the date that the video was taken on? She claims that Fox reporters had left but later returned around 1AM and determined that additional vote counting had been taking place in their absence. We should expect to see this reported on by Fox from around the date in question I think. So if you have the date that would be helpful. I haven't seen the date given in the few sources I found which were covering this.
      I managed to track this one down. It's more of the same JV team muddle; none of these guys are election lawyers, and it shows. There's a reason why these folks aren't taking this issue to court. This particular segment rehashes the burst pipe issue at State Farm Arena during the original election count. Here's one of the earlier stories.

      Georgia investigating vote counting delayed by flooding in Democratic county
      .
      Republican poll watchers left the State Farm Arena around 10:30 p.m. election night after officials said counting would stop.

      Barron said he sent most poll workers home, including those whose fatigue made them “counter-productive,” but a few remained and continued counting until around 1 a.m. even though the Republican poll watchers had left.

      Republicans were allowed to review tape of what occurred while they were gone, there was an independent monitor watching the count and Republicans witnessed the recount over the weekend, the Journal-Constitution reported.

      I'm not seeing any suggestion there wasn't a water issue — though it seems they might have prettied it up some to avoid saying it was coming from the toilets — or that these were anything other than real votes, properly counted, breathless conspiracy theories swirling around where boxes were stored notwithstanding.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

        False. The video speaks for itself. You can see the election workers send the observers away and then proceed to secretly count tens of thousands of ballots, including several cases worth that had been concealed under a table, all without witnesses present in violation of Georgia election law.

        I know you and other liberals are eager to handwave this away, but it was enough to compel Governor Kemp to order a full signature audit of ballots.

        https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bronso...otage-n2581038
        Governor Kemp is not a judge, and is under a lot of pressure to mollify Trump, since Trump can throw the runoff elections to the Democrats if he so chooses. A full signature audit will buy some time for Trump to continue to collect donations for his PAC.

        Comment


        • #34
          afb120420dAPR20201204064504.jpg
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

            I managed to track this one down. It's more of the same JV team muddle; none of these guys are election lawyers, and it shows. There's a reason why these folks aren't taking this issue to court. This particular segment rehashes the burst pipe issue at State Farm Arena during the original election count. Here's one of the earlier stories.

            Georgia investigating vote counting delayed by flooding in Democratic county
            .
            Republican poll watchers left the State Farm Arena around 10:30 p.m. election night after officials said counting would stop.

            Barron said he sent most poll workers home, including those whose fatigue made them “counter-productive,” but a few remained and continued counting until around 1 a.m. even though the Republican poll watchers had left.

            Republicans were allowed to review tape of what occurred while they were gone, there was an independent monitor watching the count and Republicans witnessed the recount over the weekend, the Journal-Constitution reported.




            I'm not seeing any suggestion there wasn't a water issue — though it seems they might have prettied it up some to avoid saying it was coming from the toilets — or that these were anything other than real votes, properly counted, breathless conspiracy theories swirling around where boxes were stored notwithstanding.
            According to sworn affidavits from the two official observers, they were lied to and told they could leave because counting was being suspended for the evening and would continue the next morning at 8am. We can see on the video that counting continued for several hours in secret, including the tens of thousands of ballots that had been concealed under the table. The official observers did not know that counting had continued in their absence until another party informed them, at which point they returned around 1am only to see the poll workers leaving for the evening.

            Relevant questions:

            1) Why were the official observers lied to?
            2) Why did poll workers continue counting in secret?
            3) Why did poll workers wait until the official observers had left before producing the hidden cases full of ballots?
            Last edited by Mountain Man; 12-04-2020, 10:43 AM.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

              According to sworn affidavits from the two official observers, they were lied to and told they could leave because counting was being suspended for the evening and would continue the next morning at 8am. We can see on the video that counting continued for several hours in secret, including the tens of thousands of ballots that had been concealed under the table. The official observers did not know that counting had continued in their absence until another party informed them, at which point they returned around 1am only to see the poll workers leaving for the evening.

              Relevant questions:

              1) Why were the official observers lied to?
              The first step to answering that is to ask who they allege lied to them. Was that in their affidavits?

              2) Why did poll workers continue counting in secret?
              Is it really in secret if the independent monitor was there, and it was being recorded on video?

              3) Why did poll workers wait until the official observers had left before producing the hidden cases full of ballots?
              Is that what they were, or is that something made up by Trump's legal team?

              Don't forget the biggest question. If the Republicans knew about this since 1:00am on November 4, and expect something to be done about it, why haven't they introduced this evidence in a lawsuit?

              The obvious answer is that they don't expect anything to be done about it, but just want to rile up Republicans enough so that they'll keep sending money to Trump. But if you have a better answer, I'd love to hear it.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                Come back when it comes before a judge, and is judged to have "merit and found to be evidence." At present it is the work of an incompetent disbarred lawyer, and nothing more.

                He claims fraud on the level that could change the election results in several states. His unfounded dishonest assertions remain in contradiction of Barr's conclusions.

                Still waiting . . .
                Indeed, well said but sadly it had to be laid out for some.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  According to sworn affidavits from the two official observers, they were lied to and told they could leave because counting was being suspended for the evening and would continue the next morning at 8am. We can see on the video that counting continued for several hours in secret, including the tens of thousands of ballots that had been concealed under the table. The official observers did not know that counting had continued in their absence until another party informed them, at which point they returned around 1am only to see the poll workers leaving for the evening.

                  Relevant questions:

                  1) Why were the official observers lied to?
                  2) Why did poll workers continue counting in secret?
                  3) Why did poll workers wait until the official observers had left before producing the hidden cases full of ballots?
                  There was an official monitor who never left, and I haven't seen any sworn affidavits from Fulton County observers. If there were only two, that'd be significant. That's half a million votes being counted. Just two observers, that doesn't make sense. Too many tables to watch. There were a lot of observers there, and I'd like to know if they agree with these guys, and I'd like to know if they disagree, too.

                  But this other stuff is irrelevant, or worse. I'm watching counting on official video, as required, and reading that it was done in secret. Those two things can't both be true.

                  Personally, I'm in favor of a signature audit. The more evidence to answer questions, the better.

                  This isn't the first time Kemp's called for it, either, though I'm reading it's supposed to be a sample audit. He's calling for it again because it didn't work the first time. In Georgia, the election is run by their secretary of state, and no one else, as Kemp would know. He was under heavy pressure to recuse from running his own election for governor as its secretary of state, and never bent. In any case, certification occurs at the county level, and Fulton County, on a 3-2 vote, re-certified about an hour ago, meeting the deadline. I don't think the signature audit is going to happen.

                  As best I understand the conspiracy theory, the idea is that the election monitor brought in four boxes of faked ballots, and put them under a table, enough for 24,000 Biden votes — enough to swing the election — and then four election workers who'd stayed behind to help, counted them. Maybe one of them stuffed up a toilet to clear the counting room, too. So five people caught on camera, committing a crime, plus however many others were needed to create the fake ballots. That could be a lot of people. That would be huge, and nasty, too, if we include the restroom sabotage.

                  It reads like a script from Mission: Impossible, give or take a close-up of toilet water pouring through the ceiling. It'd be a great plan, neatly explaining why the monitor would tell everyone to clear out, and giving the stuffing crew time to do their damage, just enough to turn the election, without being so much it'd attract immediate attention. Or, maybe somebody had a massive bowel movement and backed up the pipes upstairs, and it was leaking into the room, and someone else didn't feel comfy telling the crowd that squish under their feet was poo water, so they just told everyone to go home.

                  The point being there's nothing on the tape that can't be answered with a less than nefarious explanation. All of those workers have been identified by now, and the monitor's already answered questions about the "broken pipe," a month ago, now. I guess you could put them against each other, and see if the MI crew will crack, this time, but probably not.

                  Whatever happened on election night, all of those ballots have since been hand-recounted, collaterally putting to rest some of the wilder stories about Dominion voting machines. By design, there's no way to track ballots back to their signature envelopes. The count of signature envelopes has to match the count of ballots, though, and they do. So the signature audit, in response to this video, in sum, would be about determining if 24,000 invalid envelopes can be found from Fulton County. The boxes are just ballots that have checked out as valid, twice now. There's nothing left there to check.

                  This isn't MI. People talk. It's been a month.

                  The election's over.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    What a load of hooey.
                    "Obama is not a brown-skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away free healthcare. You are thinking of Jesus." Episcopal Bishop of Arizona

                    I remember WinAce. Gone but not forgotten.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

                      There was an official monitor who never left, and I haven't seen any sworn affidavits from Fulton County observers. If there were only two, that'd be significant. That's half a million votes being counted. Just two observers, that doesn't make sense. Too many tables to watch. There were a lot of observers there, and I'd like to know if they agree with these guys, and I'd like to know if they disagree, too.

                      But this other stuff is irrelevant, or worse. I'm watching counting on official video, as required, and reading that it was done in secret. Those two things can't both be true.

                      Personally, I'm in favor of a signature audit. The more evidence to answer questions, the better.

                      This isn't the first time Kemp's called for it, either, though I'm reading it's supposed to be a sample audit. He's calling for it again because it didn't work the first time. In Georgia, the election is run by their secretary of state, and no one else, as Kemp would know. He was under heavy pressure to recuse from running his own election for governor as its secretary of state, and never bent. In any case, certification occurs at the county level, and Fulton County, on a 3-2 vote, re-certified about an hour ago, meeting the deadline. I don't think the signature audit is going to happen.

                      As best I understand the conspiracy theory, the idea is that the election monitor brought in four boxes of faked ballots, and put them under a table, enough for 24,000 Biden votes — enough to swing the election — and then four election workers who'd stayed behind to help, counted them. Maybe one of them stuffed up a toilet to clear the counting room, too. So five people caught on camera, committing a crime, plus however many others were needed to create the fake ballots. That could be a lot of people. That would be huge, and nasty, too, if we include the restroom sabotage.

                      It reads like a script from Mission: Impossible, give or take a close-up of toilet water pouring through the ceiling. It'd be a great plan, neatly explaining why the monitor would tell everyone to clear out, and giving the stuffing crew time to do their damage, just enough to turn the election, without being so much it'd attract immediate attention. Or, maybe somebody had a massive bowel movement and backed up the pipes upstairs, and it was leaking into the room, and someone else didn't feel comfy telling the crowd that squish under their feet was poo water, so they just told everyone to go home.

                      The point being there's nothing on the tape that can't be answered with a less than nefarious explanation. All of those workers have been identified by now, and the monitor's already answered questions about the "broken pipe," a month ago, now. I guess you could put them against each other, and see if the MI crew will crack, this time, but probably not.

                      Whatever happened on election night, all of those ballots have since been hand-recounted, collaterally putting to rest some of the wilder stories about Dominion voting machines. By design, there's no way to track ballots back to their signature envelopes. The count of signature envelopes has to match the count of ballots, though, and they do. So the signature audit, in response to this video, in sum, would be about determining if 24,000 invalid envelopes can be found from Fulton County. The boxes are just ballots that have checked out as valid, twice now. There's nothing left there to check.

                      This isn't MI. People talk. It's been a month.

                      The election's over.
                      I'm afraid you are confusing two separate incidents. The "burst pipe" was Tuesday morning, which apparently caused them to move some absentee ballots around, and delayed vote counting by a couple of hours. The "secret vote counting" was from late Tuesday night until the early morning hours Wednesday.

                      I agree with you, though, that there is no serious evidence of anything nefarious going on.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        A summary of the current status of evidence...

                        Trump keeps losing election lawsuits

                        In an Associated Press tally of roughly 50 cases brought by Trump's campaign and his allies, more than 30 have been rejected or dropped. About a dozen are awaiting action. Trump has notched just one small victory, a case challenging a decision to move the deadline to provide missing proof of identification for certain absentee ballots and mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania.

                        And it's not like the dozen lawsuits in the queue are better quality than the 30 that already lost - his lawsuits are getting noticeably worse over time, as what few competent lawyers they have leave, and the claims being made in the lawsuits get increasingly crackpot and less and less evidence based. Sidney Powell's latest offering was riddled with really basic errors, including crucial documents that it claimed were attached not being attached, misspellings everywhere including of the name of the court it was being brought before, and its content featured absurd fantasy claims that dead communist dictators had had a role in this election's outcome.

                        As far as I can determine, in all of Trump and his allies' court cases combined, they have successfully demonstrated to the court and had accepted by the judge that it occurred... ZERO... instances of voter fraud or election fraud. Not a single ballot cast incorrectly or counted incorrectly has been proven in any court.

                        They've come up with wild claims of dead people voting, and then had to retract their claims when those people turn out to be alive and willing to be interviewed.

                        Republican election officials in Georgia searched for fraud and announced they found none.

                        The Republican controlled Department of Justice searched for fraud and announced they found nothing that would affect the election result.

                        It's not merely that Trump has failed to find the hundreds of thousands of fraudulent votes across multiple states that he would need to overturn the outcome, but we've not seen them demonstrate any votes in any states that were cast or counted fraudulently.

                        It's got to the point where they seem to have mostly given up on court cases, and have instead set up their own kangaroo court where their own congressmen can listen to the evidence rather than a federal judge. Their crackpot witnesses have been rising to internet stardom for their sheer insanity. Even the Republican congressman looks high-IQ by comparison.

                        And now Michael Flynn, once on of Trump's top advisors thinks martial law's a good idea. I mean... given all the zero votes demonstrated to have been fraudulently cast and counted, why not?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                          I have no idea what you're talking about. This has nothing to do with FOX News, and the date and time stamp is clearly visible in the security footage.
                          Ok, you're right, the timestamps were visible in about 7 places.

                          At 4:06 she says the Republican observers got news from a news crew that counting had continued. I thought say said "the Fox news crew" but she just said "a news crew." In any case. we should expect to find some record from a news crew or a contemporaneous record from the observers that shadiness was occurring as this was quite long before Georgia was called. Has anyone found that?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                            I'm afraid you are confusing two separate incidents. The "burst pipe" was Tuesday morning, which apparently caused them to move some absentee ballots around, and delayed vote counting by a couple of hours. The "secret vote counting" was from late Tuesday night until the early morning hours Wednesday.

                            I agree with you, though, that there is no serious evidence of anything nefarious going on.
                            Dude, I was gonna that sell that script. Well wth, we'll just call it "based on a true story."

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by LiconaFan97 View Post

                              Ok, you're right, the timestamps were visible in about 7 places.

                              At 4:06 she says the Republican observers got news from a news crew that counting had continued. I thought say said "the Fox news crew" but she just said "a news crew." In any case. we should expect to find some record from a news crew or a contemporaneous record from the observers that shadiness was occurring as this was quite long before Georgia was called. Has anyone found that?
                              Gabriel Sterling, Voting System Implementation Manager, is linking to a debunking on his twitter account.
                              .
                              Frances Watson, chief investigator for the Georgia secretary of state, told Lead Stories during a phone call on December 3, 2020, that the ballots were in standard containers, and the work during the time in question had nothing to do with pulling ballots from under a table. She said:
                              There wasn't a bin that had ballots in it under that table. It was an empty bin and the ballots from it were actually out on the table when the media were still there, and then it was placed back into the box when the media were still there and placed next to the table.

                              There was never an announcement made to the media and other observers about the counting being over for the night and them needing to leave, according to Watson, who was provided information by the media liaison, who was present. She said they just followed the "cutters" as they left.

                              She said:
                              Nobody told them to stay. Nobody told them to leave. Nobody gave them any advice on what they should do. And It was still open for them or the public to come back in to view at whatever time they wanted to, as long as they were still working.

                              In addition, she explained that the only ballots that were scanned after the media and other observers had left were those that had already been opened in front of these observers.

                              If the Trump campaign was serious about anything other than pocketing the last dime out of the election for Trump, this would be over by now. He's got his surrogates out telling his people to intentionally boycott the senate elections.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

                                If the Trump campaign was serious about anything other than pocketing the last dime out of the election for Trump, this would be over by now. He's got his surrogates out telling his people to intentionally boycott the senate elections.
                                Truly one of the more bizarre things to come from this election, which is really saying something. Trump is trying to burn everything down on his way out.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by Cow Poke, Today, 02:13 PM
                                22 responses
                                84 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Terraceth  
                                Started by mossrose, Today, 12:22 PM
                                5 responses
                                29 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post mossrose  
                                Started by seer, Today, 12:05 PM
                                13 responses
                                54 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post seer
                                by seer
                                 
                                Started by Sparko, Today, 11:40 AM
                                45 responses
                                171 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by whag, Today, 11:31 AM
                                29 responses
                                142 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Working...
                                X