Originally posted by Cow Poke
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
I've got a friend who was a Baptist minister and can't be one now because he's divorced.
I mean, the circumstances don't matter at all apparently. It's just this is so horrible.
One of the Churches I pastored called a new pastor after I left who, after the fact, was found out to be divorced.
It caused quite a stir in the church because some of the people thought there's nothing wrong with that, and most of them thought he needed to resign.
When asked why he didn't disclose that up front, he responded, "I knew you wouldn't call me if you knew I was divorced".
In that case, it was a glaring failure on the pastor search committee's part, because they failed to do their homework.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
Yes, and that's often interpreted as "a one woman man".
Same way being a "non-practicing" homosexual as opposed to one who is living in sin.
I'm just saying we attach certain stigmas --- if a man committed murder prior to being saved, I'd see that differently than a preacher who commits murder. FAR different.
So, what about a man who was divorced before he was saved?
Lots of moving parts.
I mean, the circumstances don't matter at all apparently. It's just this is so horrible.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
And we also may want to give the benefit of the doubt if we don't know just what happened. The Bible says that Joseph was honorable because he just wanted to quietly break things off with Mary instead of publicly shame her, even though he would have had the right to (if she had really been unfaithful). I can respect a man who was abandoned by an unfaithful wife but who still chose to keep quiet and not drag his whole family through the mud.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
I'm just saying we attach certain stigmas --- if a man committed murder prior to being saved, I'd see that differently than a preacher who commits murder. FAR different.
So, what about a man who was divorced before he was saved?
Lots of moving parts.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostThere is logic there in that Paul says that an elder (I think) must be the husband of one wife.
But that doesn't explain why the Catholic Church.(and maybe others) has traditionally denied Communion to divorced/remarried people. What does explain that is viewing the state of being remarried as a perpetual, ongoing state of sin (whereas if you murdered someone, that's a done deal).
Given how high divorce rates were in the Roman Empire, you would think that Paul would have specifically said he wanted people to break up second marriages when he discussed family/sexual ethics, but he didn't. So I don't see biblical cause for treating remarried people in the church like second class citizens.
So, what about a man who was divorced before he was saved?
Lots of moving parts.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostOn a personal level, I am the one who is a bit convicted. I am angry at the way certain activists are aggressively targeting kids like mine. And I admit that I let that color my view of other people who aren't involved with that. I need to remind myself that all people need Jesus just the same and that no group of people are beyond his reach.
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On a personal level, I am the one who is a bit convicted. I am angry at the way certain activists are aggressively targeting kids like mine. And I admit that I let that color my view of other people who aren't involved with that. I need to remind myself that all people need Jesus just the same and that no group of people are beyond his reach.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
We used to say.... "as a preacher, you can kill your wife, go to prison, come out, make a confession, and still be a preacher (in the Baptist church). But, God forbid you should get divorced -- you're FINISHED!!!"
But that doesn't explain why the Catholic Church.(and maybe others) has traditionally denied Communion to divorced/remarried people. What does explain that is viewing the state of being remarried as a perpetual, ongoing state of sin (whereas if you murdered someone, that's a done deal). Given how high divorce rates were in the Roman Empire, you would think that Paul would have specifically said he wanted people to break up second marriages when he discussed family/sexual ethics, but he didn't. So I don't see biblical cause for treating remarried people in the church like second class citizens.
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
Ah - I hadn't realised that the claim that all sins are equal could be construed in the way portrayed by that article. I'll have to work on ways to rephrase the claim. The fact remains though that sin, regardless of its expression, creates a separation between the person and God. That is a key issue that preaching needs to address. At the same time, where sins that are promoted as acceptable, the falsehoods in that promotion need singling out.
I'll agree that the most important aspect of what sin does i.e. separation from God, applies equally to all sin. However, I do think that certain sins are worse than others in that you will earn a worse punishment during said separation. Just as those who perform more good works or more important works will get a better reward for them in the new creation.
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Ah - I hadn't realised that the claim that all sins are equal could be construed in the way portrayed by that article. I'll have to work on ways to rephrase the claim. The fact remains though that sin, regardless of its expression, creates a separation between the person and God. That is a key issue that preaching needs to address. At the same time, where sins that are promoted as acceptable, the falsehoods in that promotion need singling out.
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We used to say.... "as a preacher, you can kill your wife, go to prison, come out, make a confession, and still be a preacher (in the Baptist church). But, God forbid you should get divorced -- you're FINISHED!!!"
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostI remember seeing Robert Gagnon make a case that homosexuality is either the worst sin or among the worst of sins but I can't for the life of me remember what his arguments were.
I remember not being convinced but he wouldn't be the first Christian to rank sins in seriousness. Chrysostom famously said that using birth control was more serious than homicide.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostI remember seeing Robert Gagnon make a case that homosexuality is either the worst sin or among the worst of sins but I can't for the life of me remember what his arguments were.
I remember not being convinced but he wouldn't be the first Christian to rank sins in seriousness. Chrysostom famously said that using birth control was more serious than homicide.
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
Paul ranked sexual immorality as the worst of sins (without distinguishing between sexual immoralities) because the person's sin is primarily against himself.
I'm not convinced that any ranking is valid though - the penalty for unrepented sins is the same regardless of their nature.Last edited by KingsGambit; 07-21-2021, 07:38 PM.
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