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Odinism - the religion of the Kansas anti-Semitic murderer

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  • Odinism - the religion of the Kansas anti-Semitic murderer

    There seems to be some confusion about the religion of Frazier Glenn Cross, the man who opened fire outside a Jewish community center in Kansas on Sunday. He does not identify with Christianity as some assume. Rather, he has written in support of a neo-pagan religion known as Odinism (although according to the article, he may be closer to atheism). Apparently Odinism has some following among imprisoned white supremacists. I found this article interesting:

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/0...ion/?hpt=hp_t2
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  • #2
    Odin was a Norsk god. Currently yeah Odinism is popular in Neopagan circles as a way to get in touch with the Nordic roots and for white supremacy presumably blonde hair blue eyed types. For others, its merely paganism.
    A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
    George Bernard Shaw

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    • #3
      For an anti-Semitic, he wasn't very good at identifying Jews (0 for 3).
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

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      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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      • #4
        Odinism is heathen not pagan and not all odinists are neo nazi followers of fashion

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        • #5
          Originally posted by London View Post
          Odinism is heathen not pagan and not all odinists are neo nazi followers of fashion
          What is the difference between heathen and pagan?

          And to be clear, I am not claiming all Odinists, or even most, are racist.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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          • #6
            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            For an anti-Semitic, he wasn't very good at identifying Jews (0 for 3).
            'Anti-Semite' doesn't really imply 'smarter than the average rock', does it?

            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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            • #7
              From my understanding (and I know it is not all that much!) a Pagan is anyone not following one of the three Abrahamic religions.The term Pagan has become a more generalized term to refer to a wide umbrella of nature oriented religions that most commonly share a focus on earth centered spirituality and feature both a God and a Goddess as the representations of the concept of deity. A Heathen on the other hand, is one who follows an Ethnic tradition/religion. Heathens are those who modernly follow Northern European traditions and therefore would argue that the term Heathen is exclusive to only the followers of Northern European, and often more specifically Germanic, traditions. As the term heathen was derived from the Old Norse word, hen, this is a logical interpretation for those who intend to use culturally specific terminology.


              I guess you could say that All Heathens are Pagans, but not all Pagans are Heathens. Which is why I differentiated. It is akin to the differences within christian denominations JW's, SDA's, Mormons, catholics, Anglicans, baptists, methodists.... do you see my point (Hope so)

              Heathen is a word that means heath dweller or hills dweller. It was taken by the Christians to mean anyone who was an infedel back during the Crusades era. Pagan is a more modern term and usually applies to anyone whose religion is not Jewish/Christian/Islamic or Bhuddist. Because the word heathen has been used as an insult term by Christians for so many hundreds of years most people who follow a mystery religion that do not call themselves atheist or agnostic prefer Pagan at least in the USA. A Heathen is equated as a "bad man" but seriously.... aren't all men "bad" Lets not confuse heathen with heretic , although I guess most heathens would be thought to be heretical as they don't do Jesus.

              Pagan: The term pagan comes from the Latin word paganus and can be modernly equated to a "dumb stupid hick" and was considered a derogatory term.

              Paganus: Adj. Of a village, rustic; ignorant, untaught; m. villager, peasant; (as term of contempt) yokel (From the "New College Latin and English Dictionary," by John C. Traupman, PhD.) Alternatively, the term is also of Roman derivation and refers to a civilian and was a reference to those who were not enrolled in the Christian religious militia (e. g. Soldier of Christ).
              Heathens prefer the term precisely because it is Germanic in root. Northern Europe, with the exception of part of the British Isles, was never conquered by the Roman Empire. so, sure it may be childish, but it's a way of thumbing our noses at the southerners (those who were invaded) . It's one of their our own words, not one that came from Latin.

              https://education.yahoo.com/referenc.../entry/Hoosier

              Both words, Pagan and Heathen are derogatory in nature. Both came to mean "bumpkin" (foolish country folk.) When applied to religion, they meant a foolish person who clung to old beliefs and Gods.

              If you don't think clinging to old Gods is foolish, you don't see the term as derogatory, you therefore wear it with pride.

              A similar idea can be applied to the state of Indiana. The residents call themselves Hoosiers, although it is defined as a derogatory term in dictionaries (meaning bumpkin or country rustic). Hoosiers are proud to be country folk.

              The link gives more examples of derogatory words becoming words of pride NC = Tarheels because they don't back down!
              Last edited by London; 06-07-2014, 08:51 PM.

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              • #8
                Actually, you have to be within Christianity to be a heretic - it refers to deviating significantly from orthodoxy, not merely not following Jesus.

                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                  Actually, you have to be within Christianity to be a heretic - it refers to deviating significantly from orthodoxy, not merely not following Jesus.
                  Thank you for the reminder Teal =, it's been a while since I've been around these circles and so my definitions are a little rusty.

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                  • #10
                    No prob - it isn't a big deal but I thought I'd mention it.


                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                      Actually, you have to be within Christianity to be a heretic - it refers to deviating significantly from orthodoxy, not merely not following Jesus.
                      Minor quibble: being a heretic is not exclusive to Christianity.
                      I'm not here anymore.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Carrikature View Post
                        Minor quibble: being a heretic is not exclusive to Christianity.
                        True - unless you're discussing Christian heretics.


                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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                        • #13
                          One of the reasons that many Norse Heathens prefer the term "heathen" over "pagan" or "neo-pagan" is the connotation and stigma attached to "paganism" in the modern scheme of things. Generally, the term "neopagan" conjures up a view (whether this is a fair view or not) of dark emo-hippy, magic-minded, moral relativists.

                          On the other hand, Heathens tend to be a bit more practically-minded. They generally fully admit-- and even pride themselves upon-- the fact that modern Heathenry is an attempt to reconstruct a religion from history; it is not an unbroken continuation of that religion. Many Heathens refer to their faith as "the religion with homework," due to a general emphasis on scholarly reading of the historical accounts of the faith. Christian students and scholars familiar with historical, genre, and textual criticism might be surprised to learn that these fields are considered to be of utmost importance to Norse Heathens. They tend to have fairly strong views on ethics and morality which focus on the value of family and kindred. Heathens tend to be much more conservative, politically, than most neo-pagans, as a result.

                          As in any other religion, you will find a number of people who interpret things differently from others-- even when it comes to the basic tenets of Heathen theology. There are Heathens who believe that the gods are actual, personal beings who interact with humanity; while, at the same time, there are others who take a more archetypal view, believing the gods to be the embodiment of certain concepts or aspects of the world. The difference between these two views is something like the difference between Classical Theism and Panentheism, from a monotheist's perspective. There are still other Heathens, like myself, who are actually completely atheist. We find good ethical and philosophical value in the legends and myths recorded in the Sagas and the Eddas, but we do not believe that the gods represent actual entities working in the world.

                          There are a lot of different names associated with Norse Heathenry: Asatru, Odinism, the Troth, Theodism, and a host of others. There is, unfortunately, a stigma of racism attached to Heathenry, and while the vast majority of Heathens stand firmly opposed to any promotion of bigotry, there are a handful of noisome Heathens who are most certainly ethnically biased.

                          Norse Heathenry is a very interesting religion, with some surprisingly complex scholarship. If anyone would like a pretty good introduction to just what Heathenry is, what Heathens believe, and the history of the religion, I wholeheartedly recommend a fairly short book by Patricia M. Lafayllve called, "A Practical Heathen's Guide to Asatru." It's not perfect, but it's the best intro to Heathenry that I have yet seen.
                          "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                          --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

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                          • #14
                            Thank you for the general introduction. I found the part about it being adopted by some as a philosophy (but specifically not as a religious) to be interesting, and it makes sense - there is precedent for such a thing with some people who identify as Satanists (but not theists) and other secular people who call themselves Cultural Christians as an acknowledgement of it having a role in the shaping of their particular society.

                            The part about them having a generally communitarian outlook also makes sense as to why so many are associated with right wing politics, at least in the public imagination...
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              Thank you for the general introduction. I found the part about it being adopted by some as a philosophy (but specifically not as a religious) to be interesting, and it makes sense - there is precedent for such a thing with some people who identify as Satanists (but not theists) and other secular people who call themselves Cultural Christians as an acknowledgement of it having a role in the shaping of their particular society.

                              The part about them having a generally communitarian outlook also makes sense as to why so many are associated with right wing politics, at least in the public imagination...
                              I'm glad you enjoyed! Perhaps I should work at getting a few of these posts split off into their own thread. I rather chafe at the title of this one. It'd be like having the only thread dedicated to Christianity on a religion forum entitled "Roman Catholic- the religion of mafia hitman Richard Kuklinski."
                              "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                              --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

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