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Unorthodox Theology 201 Guidelines

Theists only.

This forum area is primarily for persons who would identify themselves as Christians whether or not their theology is recognized within the mainstream or as orthodox though other theists may participate with moderator permission. Therefore those that would be restricted from posting in Christianity 201 due to a disagreement with the enumerated doctrines, ie the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment may freely post here on any theological subject matter. In this case "unorthodox" is used in the strict sense of a person who denies what has been declared as universal essentials of the historic Christian faith. Examples would be adherents to Oneness, Full Preterists, Unitarian Universalist Christians, Gnostics, Liberal Christianity, Christian Science to name a few.

The second purpose will be for threads on subjects, which although the thread starter has no issue with the above doctrines, the subject matter is so very outside the bounds of normative Christian doctrine totally within the leadership's discretion that it is placed here. In so doing, no judgment or offense is intended to be placed on the belief of said person in the above-doctrines. In this case "unorthodox" is used in a much looser sense of "outside the norms" - Examples of such threads would be pro-polygamy, pro-drug use, proponents of gay Christian churches, proponents of abortion.

The third purpose is for persons who wish to have input from any and all who would claim the title of Christian even on subjects that would be considered "orthodox."

The philosophy behind this area was to recognize that there are persons who would identify themselves as Christian and thus seem out of place in the Comparative Religions Forum, but yet in keeping with our committment here to certain basic core Christian doctrines. Also, it allows threads to be started by those who would want to still be identified as Christian with a particular belief that while not denying an essential is of such a nature that the discussion on that issue belongs in this section or for threads by persons who wish such a non-restricted discussion.


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  • #16
    Originally posted by Adrift View Post
    Not sure if I'm allowed to interject here or not, but where are you getting this "Satanic salvation" motif from Bill's posts? Is it because he cited John 8:44? If so, Bill isn't saying that the Jews (or more specifically, the Pharisees of verse 13), are saved because they belong to their father, the devil, to the contrary, Bill is asserting that certain of the Jews (again, the Pharisees of verse 13) are NOT saved, specifically because they do not believe in Jesus (verse 45).
    He knows. He is purposefully avoiding the question because he knows his answer is heretical.
    Also, I imagine the reason that Bill is asking you these (in my opinion, relatively straightforward) questions, is because, as a mod, he needs to ascertain whether or not you hold an unorthodox view of Christianity. If so, unorthodox Christians are limited by forum rules to certain areas of the forum. So he's throwing his weight around for justifiable reasons.
    Precisely.

    I do sort of sorta disagree with Bill on one point. Paul did not necessarily write Hebrews, and in fact, probably most scholars today would say that Paul did not write Hebrews, but regardless, I believe someone with divine authority in the church wrote Hebrews, and it appears to me that that whoever wrote it, attempted to write with the same theology in mind as Paul had. Likely, in my opinion, someone who worked closely with (or as a contemporary with) Paul wrote it. Maybe Barnabas or Apollos.
    I didn't claim that Paul wrote it. I also think Barnabas wrote it, and there is some pre-nicean evidence of that claim.

    Either way, Squint has been tossed into the matrix until he answers the question directly.
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    - Stephen R. Donaldson

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      I didn't claim that Paul wrote it. I also think Barnabas wrote it, and there is some pre-nicean evidence of that claim.
      Ok, I guess this part threw me a bit,

      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      Moderated By: Bill the Cat

      Paul's warns us against doing that in Romans 11.
      And he makes it clear that not all Jews will be saved.

      Heb 11:23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again

      So, Paul in no way says that Jews are beneficiaries of universal salvation based only on their lineage.

      ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
      Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

      Which I think is actually Romans 11:23.

      Either way, Squint has been tossed into the matrix until he answers the question directly.

      Roger.

      Comment


      • #18
        Squint's last post was not the direct answer to Bills quetsions only more obfuscation. which leads me to think he knows his veiw is heretical and doesn't want to admit.

        Moderated By: RumTumTugger

        Squint, Do you believe that the Jews will be saved if they do not believe and/or accept that JESUS IS THE MESSIAH the fullfilment of the Promise given int the Old testament? until you give a simple yes or no to the question your posts won't be released. justt state yes or not. No obfuscating explanation to cloud the issue will suffice to get you out of limbo just a simple yes or no is the only answer needed for the question at hand.

        ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
        Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

        Last edited by RumTumTugger; 11-28-2014, 09:15 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by squint View Post
          There is no doubt that the Spirit of Christ spoke through the O.T. prophets. They just did not know the whole story at the time said Word was delivered. We have the pleasure of 20/20 hindsight as christians.

          . . . . as in Ezekiel 18:31
          Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?
          Nearly identical admonishments are provided in the N.T. to christians. 2 Tim. 2:19 is a great correlation.


          Paul advised us that regardless of Israel's blinding, they shall all be saved. Even enemies of the Gospel. Romans 11:25-32
          ". . . And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: . . . ." Yet future.
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

          Comment


          • #20
            Moderated By: DesertBerean

            Thread moved to Unorthodox Theology per Dept Head Request.

            ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
            Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

            Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

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            • #21
              Is it the official position of this forum that John Wesley, Billy Graham, and the last few Popes could not post as orthodox Christians? To my knowledge the line is normally drawn between inclusivism and pluralism. That is, orthodox Christianity normaly allows the view that Christ may accept a non-Christian's faith as faith in him even though the person doesn't know about Christ.

              What is not orthodox is the view that Christ is unnecessary for salvation, or that somehow all religions are true.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by hedrick View Post
                Is it the official position of this forum that John Wesley, Billy Graham, and the last few Popes could not post as orthodox Christians? To my knowledge the line is normally drawn between inclusivism and pluralism. That is, orthodox Christianity normaly allows the view that Christ may accept a non-Christian's faith as faith in him even though the person doesn't know about Christ.

                What is not orthodox is the view that Christ is unnecessary for salvation, or that somehow all religions are true.
                I think the difference is that Jews have heard of Jesus and reject him, unlike the unknown isolated peoples who might have saving faith in a redeemer without having heard the name of Jesus.
                Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
                  I think the difference is that Jews have heard of Jesus and reject him, unlike the unknown isolated peoples who might have saving faith in a redeemer without having heard the name of Jesus.
                  I think it's safer to leave judgement to God. With Christians so often having persecuted Jews, and the Trinity and Incarnation so often presented so that they seem to be a violation of monotheism, it's easy to imagine Jews who would otherwise accept Jesus thinking that Christianity is the enemy. (Indeed if I had not grown up within the Church, and depended upon most public presentations of Christianity, I would doubtless have considered it incoherent.) I think unreached people may actually better off than some people that Christians have reached with a botched Gospel.

                  "It is not so easy to pass any judgment concerning the faith of our modern Jews. It is plain, “the veil is still upon their hearts” when Moses and the Prophets are read. The god of this world still hardens their hearts, and still blinds their eyes, “lest at any time the light of the glorious gospel” should break in upon them. So that we may say of this people, as the Holy Ghost said to their forefathers, “The heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed ; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and should be converted, and I should heal them.” (Acts 28:27.) Yet it is not our part to pass sentence upon them, but to leave them to their own Master."

                  John Wesley, Sermon 106, On Faith, I 6.
                  Last edited by hedrick; 01-11-2015, 07:05 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by hedrick View Post
                    I think it's safer to leave judgement to God. With Christians so often having persecuted Jews, and the Trinity and Incarnation so often presented so that they seem to be a violation of monotheism, it's easy to imagine Jews who would otherwise accept Jesus thinking that Christianity is the enemy. (Indeed if I had not grown up within the Church, and depended upon most public presentations of Christianity, I would doubtless have considered it incoherent.) I think unreached people may actually better off than some people that Christians have reached with a botched Gospel.
                    I do not think I was disagreeing with you. I was contrasting the assumption that Jews will be saved by the Torah with idea that those who haven't heard of Jesus but believe in a redeemer might be saved being plausible. Squint seemed to say the first, and you seem to say the latter.

                    "It is not so easy to pass any judgment concerning the faith of our modern Jews. It is plain, “the veil is still upon their hearts” when Moses and the Prophets are read. The god of this world still hardens their hearts, and still blinds their eyes, “lest at any time the light of the glorious gospel” should break in upon them. So that we may say of this people, as the Holy Ghost said to their forefathers, “The heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed ; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their hearts, and should be converted, and I should heal them.” (Acts 28:27.) Yet it is not our part to pass sentence upon them, but to leave them to their own Master."

                    John Wesley, Sermon 106, On Faith, I 6.
                    Have I passed judgement on Jews? I do not think so. But rather take the Bible at its word that all must hear the Gospel and those who have are without excuse for not accepting it, just as the unreached are without excuse due to natural theology. I am hesitant to say that an unconnected village that has never heard of Jesus is definitely unsaved, but an Orthodox Jew who has heard the Gospel from a Christian friend and rejected it? I would assume they are lost, and in need of a Savior.

                    Is it an unorthodox belief that Jews are elect based on ethnicity? I don't know. But it's definitely wrong. Is it an unorthodox belief that Jews will be saved by their faith in a Messiah other than Jesus? I would assume so. Acts 4:10-12 shows its wrong at the very least, I would assume especially relevant because they were facing a council that included the high priest and his family.
                    Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by hedrick View Post
                      Is it the official position of this forum that John Wesley, Billy Graham, and the last few Popes could not post as orthodox Christians?
                      No. John Wesley is dead as is one of the last popes. The others are too old or too busy to worry about Theologyweb.

                      To my knowledge the line is normally drawn between inclusivism and pluralism.
                      No. There are multiple "lines" that have been drawn. The exclusive nature of the message of the cross is one.

                      That is, orthodox Christianity normaly allows the view that Christ may accept a non-Christian's faith as faith in him even though the person doesn't know about Christ.
                      Orthodox Christianity accepts that God reveals Himself to mankind, and that only faith in God to with regard to the true Messiah (Jesus Christ) is sufficient for salvation. We do not agree with C.S.Lewis' bit from The Last Battle where "faithful service to Tash is credited as service to Aslan"

                      What is not orthodox is the view that Christ is unnecessary for salvation, or that somehow all religions are true.
                      Correct.
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      - Stephen R. Donaldson

                      Comment

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