Announcement

Collapse

Unorthodox Theology 201 Guidelines

Theists only.

This forum area is primarily for persons who would identify themselves as Christians whether or not their theology is recognized within the mainstream or as orthodox though other theists may participate with moderator permission. Therefore those that would be restricted from posting in Christianity 201 due to a disagreement with the enumerated doctrines, ie the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment may freely post here on any theological subject matter. In this case "unorthodox" is used in the strict sense of a person who denies what has been declared as universal essentials of the historic Christian faith. Examples would be adherents to Oneness, Full Preterists, Unitarian Universalist Christians, Gnostics, Liberal Christianity, Christian Science to name a few.

The second purpose will be for threads on subjects, which although the thread starter has no issue with the above doctrines, the subject matter is so very outside the bounds of normative Christian doctrine totally within the leadership's discretion that it is placed here. In so doing, no judgment or offense is intended to be placed on the belief of said person in the above-doctrines. In this case "unorthodox" is used in a much looser sense of "outside the norms" - Examples of such threads would be pro-polygamy, pro-drug use, proponents of gay Christian churches, proponents of abortion.

The third purpose is for persons who wish to have input from any and all who would claim the title of Christian even on subjects that would be considered "orthodox."

The philosophy behind this area was to recognize that there are persons who would identify themselves as Christian and thus seem out of place in the Comparative Religions Forum, but yet in keeping with our committment here to certain basic core Christian doctrines. Also, it allows threads to be started by those who would want to still be identified as Christian with a particular belief that while not denying an essential is of such a nature that the discussion on that issue belongs in this section or for threads by persons who wish such a non-restricted discussion.


Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

What the gospel truly says of salvation....

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Here's my question: How do you know you're not just another nutjob? I might be one. It's certainly possible. Are YOU open to the possibility you might be wrong?

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
      Here's my question: How do you know you're not just another nutjob? I might be one. It's certainly possible. Are YOU open to the possibility you might be wrong?
      I prayed to God to give me signs, and I received it.

      Human knowledge is limited, and such is the very reason Christians falls into believing logical fallacies. Apologetics is very strong in leading us to believe in God; but apologetics is limited in leading us to know God. The Gospel is what truly reveals God, and the misled gospel(s) that are preached by many are laughable and hardly to be accepted as reason to believe, much less to be persuaded through them, of the godhead. One can surely notice that what persuade most unbelievers to believe God is apologetics, not the gospel.

      The Gospel of Grace is not hinged on apologetics. Delving in apologetics sharpen our minds, but the salvation of God through his Grace is not hinged on how smart one is, or how much knowledge one has. One can excel in the academia but end up having a faith that is ludicrous, and even logically fallacious ones. The revelation of salvation was not revealed until Christ came who revealed it, yet there are saved even before the revelation of salvation was given. There is then in the human nature that human's knowledge cannot save himself, though every elect are being led to have a renewed mind. There is a truth about the relationship of God and man for which hinged the reason we are saved through grace. (((for this reason, I am also subject to doubt)))))

      But here is how God tell us to verify things, and to know whom he sent: Deut 18:21-22
      21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? 22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.


      Witnessing of the truthfulness of God is through prophesies, not apologetics.

      Am I talking as nuts to you? Please tell me of which thing(s) I said is/are nuts.
      ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
      ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
      https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by FarEastBird View Post
        I prayed to God to give me signs, and I received it.

        Human knowledge is limited, and such is the very reason Christians falls into believing logical fallacies. Apologetics is very strong in leading us to believe in God; but apologetics is limited in leading us to know God. The Gospel is what truly reveals God, and the misled gospel(s) that are preached by many are laughable and hardly to be accepted as reason to believe, much less to be persuaded through them, of the godhead. One can surely notice that what persuade most unbelievers to believe God is apologetics, not the gospel.

        The Gospel of Grace is not hinged on apologetics. Delving in apologetics sharpen our minds, but the salvation of God through his Grace is not hinged on how smart one is, or how much knowledge one has. One can excel in the academia but end up having a faith that is ludicrous, and even logically fallacious ones. The revelation of salvation was not revealed until Christ came who revealed it, yet there are saved even before the revelation of salvation was given. There is then in the human nature that human's knowledge cannot save himself, though every elect are being led to have a renewed mind. There is a truth about the relationship of God and man for which hinged the reason we are saved through grace. (((for this reason, I am also subject to doubt)))))

        But here is how God tell us to verify things, and to know whom he sent: Deut 18:21-22
        21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? 22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.


        Witnessing of the truthfulness of God is through prophesies, not apologetics.

        Am I talking as nuts to you? Please tell me of which thing(s) I said is/are nuts.
        Yes, you sound a little unhinged to me. Sorry, but I'm sure you'd rather I was honest. As to 'signs from God, have you considered a phenomenon called 'confirmation bias'?

        Comment


        • #64
          The emphasis on esoteric prophecies is so fringe that I haven't even heard of it before. I'm just skeptical. The Holy Spirit never told me that stuff. Just lets me know when something is wrong. And I accidentally amened your post... it deserves a negative amen.
          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
            Yes, you sound a little unhinged to me. Sorry, but I'm sure you'd rather I was honest. As to 'signs from God, have you considered a phenomenon called 'confirmation bias'?
            I just read Wikipedia about the subject and it is not applicable to me. I was, rather, 'corrected' of my thoughts and ideas, and of my personal leanings; so it was not a 'confirmation bias'. And personal experiences had solidified that I was in error. And after a time I begun to understand and confirm that things has nothing to do with my will, nor of any of my power; and that all things will be but the works of God. And, actually, the gospel that I came to understand has no room for being biased.
            ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
            ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
            https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by FarEastBird View Post
              I just read Wikipedia about the subject and it is not applicable to me. I was, rather, 'corrected' of my thoughts and ideas, and of my personal leanings; so it was not a 'confirmation bias'. And personal experiences had solidified that I was in error. And after a time I begun to understand and confirm that things has nothing to do with my will, nor of any of my power; and that all things will be but the works of God. And, actually, the gospel that I came to understand has no room for being biased.
              Wikipedia!!! And everyone is biased. I supposed you think you have a special hotline to God that none of us mere peasants have. What makes you so more important that the rest of us puny humans?
              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

              Comment


              • #67
                Perhaps I should stop giving calcium carbonate spheres to members of Sus scrofa domesticus?
                If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                  The emphasis on esoteric prophecies is so fringe that I haven't even heard of it before.
                  God demonstrated the godhead through the things that are made (Rom 1:20). And you can notice how apostle Paul uses the history of Israel to explain doctrines. Note itself the circumcision of Abraham. And in Christ, note how the baptism is explained through Christ's death and resurrection. But this knowledge and understanding was lost in the proceeding centuries; and it thus conclude the falling away and blindness of Israel. You have not heard about this you call 'esoteric prophecies' because the church had fallen into blindness. Have you heard anyone explain baptism as likened to the death and resurrection of Christ? I would doubt you ever did. Maybe some have tried, but I'll say that no one can explain that mystery of baptism through those foolish gospels that I heard.
                  ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
                  ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
                  https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by FarEastBird View Post
                    God demonstrated the godhead through the things that are made (Rom 1:20). And you can notice how apostle Paul uses the history of Israel to explain doctrines. Note itself the circumcision of Abraham. And in Christ, note how the baptism is explained through Christ's death and resurrection. But this knowledge and understanding was lost in the proceeding centuries; and it thus conclude the falling away and blindness of Israel. You have not heard about this you call 'esoteric prophecies' because the church had fallen into blindness. Have you heard anyone explain baptism as likened to the death and resurrection of Christ? I would doubt you ever did. Maybe some have tried, but I'll say that no one can explain that mystery of baptism through those foolish gospels that I heard.
                    That's what all the cults claim. They all think that the TrueChristianChurchtm fell away in the first century and they were awesome enough to have the truth.
                    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                      What makes you so more important that the rest of us puny humans?

                      "Salvation through Grace" has nothing to do with man's will, nor of man's worthiness. And I do not ever think of any self advantage to anyone. It actually frustrates me why would you see me as someone bragging something.

                      Look, if you do not understand me, then there is no reason for you to accuse me that I am thinking I am somebody else. To be honest, rather, I see you as the one who thinks you are special. You want yourself as the standard, and become judge that anything you do not understand as false. Perhaps, try to understand me first, and then point to me where you thought I am making myself more important than others.
                      ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
                      ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
                      https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by FarEastBird View Post
                        "Salvation through Grace" has nothing to do with man's will, nor of man's worthiness. And I do not ever think of any self advantage to anyone. It actually frustrates me why would you see me as someone bragging something.

                        Look, if you do not understand me, then there is no reason for you to accuse me that I am thinking I am somebody else. To be honest, rather, I see you as the one who thinks you are special. You want yourself as the standard, and become judge that anything you do not understand as false. Perhaps, try to understand me first, and then point to me where you thought I am making myself more important than others.
                        If it has nothing to do with us, then why are you even talking about it? We're just characters in a story that can only become good guys if the writer wishes apparently. So, what's the point? I can't do anything about it. Do you not realize that God has saved me?
                        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                          That's what all the cults claim. They all think that the TrueChristianChurchtm fell away in the first century and they were awesome enough to have the truth.
                          Though cults claim such, it is not the very reason why they are cults. You have to look at their beliefs and practices.

                          Now, it is a practice of cults to teach their adherents to judge without getting to the truth, such as saying:

                          "That's what all the cults claim. They all think that the TrueChristianChurchtm fell away in the first century and they were awesome enough to have the truth."
                          ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
                          ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
                          https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            So, why does your belief matter to me? If your right, I can't do anything about it.
                            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                              If it has nothing to do with us, then why are you even talking about it? We're just characters in a story that can only become good guys if the writer wishes apparently. So, what's the point? I can't do anything about it.
                              I, myself, have struggled the same with your objections. I love my family and friends; and I thought that if I can sacrifice myself for them I will do so. Unfortunately, I found myself unworthy in spite that I am willing to give my life. My willingness is not enough to see myself good, nor my goodness is not enough even to see myself desirable unto God. In the end, I had come to see my unworthiness due to the reality of my being as mere dust. I can easily fall into deceptions, and self pride; not to mention that I can't even sort the depths of evil and goodness. Even the good that I willed to do sometimes end into evil conclusion/scenario. I have seen the limits of knowledge and understanding, and I have seen why it is not enough. I found myself unable to save myself, so in what way I could lead others to be saved? If it is not solely of God's grace, I would not have realized my foolishness. I came to understand that we may experience the same thing, and to be taught of the same thing, but to come into the same conclusion is not within our hands. As the Bible said: A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

                              I wondered why people believe in logical fallacies. I came to understand that they are not evil people-- as what I thought in error-- they are simply not elect.

                              If one reads your objections, he can easily spot the problem that it is contradicting the salvation through grace that we both believe. I have no special knowledge why I know you are contradicting grace, and I am not puzzled why you contradict grace. Perhaps, you really need to understand the true nature of man. Books are up there to read, but the most important thing is you experience it. Even atheists have good reasons in presenting the selfishness/evilness of human beings. Don't be like others who claim to be unworthy, believing in the bible without truly understanding it; because by heart they do not accept it. Else, you would cling to the same objections that you posit against me. It is in God's grace for you to come to realize your errors, no amount of reasoning will do.

                              And finally, if you come to understand the truth of human nature, then will you come to understand why prophecies serves as proof of Godhead.
                              ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
                              ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
                              https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by FarEastBird View Post
                                I, myself, have struggled the same with your objections. I love my family and friends; and I thought that if I can sacrifice myself for them I will do so. Unfortunately, I found myself unworthy in spite that I am willing to give my life. My willingness is not enough to see myself good, nor my goodness is not enough even to see myself desirable unto God. In the end, I had come to see my unworthiness due to the reality of my being as mere dust. I can easily fall into deceptions, and self pride; not to mention that I can't even sort the depths of evil and goodness. Even the good that I willed to do sometimes end into evil conclusion/scenario. I have seen the limits of knowledge and understanding, and I have seen why it is not enough. I found myself unable to save myself, so in what way I could lead others to be saved? If it is not solely of God's grace, I would not have realized my foolishness. I came to understand that we may experience the same thing, and to be taught of the same thing, but to come into the same conclusion is not within our hands. As the Bible said: A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

                                I wondered why people believe in logical fallacies. I came to understand that they are not evil people-- as what I thought in error-- they are simply not elect.

                                If one reads your objections, he can easily spot the problem that it is contradicting the salvation through grace that we both believe. I have no special knowledge why I know you are contradicting grace, and I am not puzzled why you contradict grace. Perhaps, you really need to understand the true nature of man. Books are up there to read, but the most important thing is you experience it. Even atheists have good reasons in presenting the selfishness/evilness of human beings. Don't be like others who claim to be unworthy, believing in the bible without truly understanding it; because by heart they do not accept it. Else, you would cling to the same objections that you posit against me. It is in God's grace for you to come to realize your errors, no amount of reasoning will do.

                                And finally, if you come to understand the truth of human nature, then will you come to understand why prophecies serves as proof of Godhead.
                                You can be saved and still commit logical fallacies. We aren't perfect. Last time I checked, logical fallacies weren't sinful.
                                If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                                Comment

                                widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                                Working...
                                X