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What the gospel truly says of salvation....

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    And YOU have to note what Paul says about God ALWAYS keeping a remnant of Israel to Himself. You err and do not know the scriptures. See Romans 9
    The "remnant" was the main subject of Rom 11:11-5. The remnant were saved while they are in the state of "unbelief." This implies that salvation has nothing to do with the will of man. But the gospel that the lost christians promote is that "one has to believe to be saved"; which is relying in one's will.

    In reality, what the apostles had come to understand and believed from Christ were never believed by OT people, yet God saved some of these OT People. So the doctrine that "one has to believe to be save" is a sign of misunderstanding the truth of the Gospel. The salvation of God is totally God's work, and it is God who makes the being of every elect to become holy. This explains why, regardless the OT people were ignorant of the Truth that Christ revealed, but because of God's purpose in Christ, they are elect. Whatever the lacking knowledge that the OT people lack will also be given to them, because it is God himself who will make them to know Him.
    ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
    ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
    https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by FarEastBird View Post
      The "remnant" was the main subject of Rom 11:11-5. The remnant were saved while they are in the state of "unbelief." This implies that salvation has nothing to do with the will of man. But the gospel that the lost christians promote is that "one has to believe to be saved"; which is relying in one's will.

      In reality, what the apostles had come to understand and believed from Christ were never believed by OT people, yet God saved some of these OT People. So the doctrine that "one has to believe to be save" is a sign of misunderstanding the truth of the Gospel. The salvation of God is totally God's work, and it is God who makes the being of every elect to become holy. This explains why, regardless the OT people were ignorant of the Truth that Christ revealed, but because of God's purpose in Christ, they are elect. Whatever the lacking knowledge that the OT people lack will also be given to them, because it is God himself who will make them to know Him.
      If human will has nothing at all to do with salvation, then why are you telling us this stuff? If we can't do anything at all, then why bother?
      If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by FarEastBird View Post
        The "remnant" was the main subject of Rom 11:11-5. The remnant were saved while they are in the state of "unbelief."
        No!! The remnant are saved because of their belief.

        Rom 11
        4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
        5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


        This implies that salvation has nothing to do with the will of man.
        No it doesn't. Those who were "remnant" in Elijah's time were those who had not bowed to Ba'al by their will.

        But the gospel that the lost christians promote is that "one has to believe to be saved"; which is relying in one's will.

        Romans 10:9

        9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
        10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

        It's in the recipe, birdie.

        In reality, what the apostles had come to understand and believed from Christ were never believed by OT people,
        Load of crap alert!!

        Hebrews 11
        1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
        2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

        6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


        yet God saved some of these OT People. So the doctrine that "one has to believe to be save" is a sign of misunderstanding the truth of the Gospel.
        Then Hebrews 11 must not exist in your bible.

        The salvation of God is totally God's work, and it is God who makes the being of every elect to become holy. This explains why, regardless the OT people were ignorant of the Truth that Christ revealed, but because of God's purpose in Christ, they are elect. Whatever the lacking knowledge that the OT people lack will also be given to them, because it is God himself who will make them to know Him.
        Hebrews 11
        7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

        The only knowledge they lacked was the knowledge of Jesus Christ dying as a sacrifice for their sins. They lived and died by faith in God, and when Christ rose, their faith was rewarded with eternal life with Him
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        Stephen R. Donaldson

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
          If human will has nothing at all to do with salvation, then why are you telling us this stuff? If we can't do anything at all, then why bother?
          Cuz he's WAY more speerchul than you.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Cuz he's WAY more speerchul than you.
            Special? Spiritual? In any case the instructions for joining the new covenant are crystal clear.
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
              Special? Spiritual?
              Yes!

              In any case the instructions for joining the new covenant are crystal clear.
              Well, not to SOME folks...
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                If human will has nothing at all to do with salvation, then why are you telling us this stuff? If we can't do anything at all, then why bother?
                Don"t you remember what John said? "A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven."

                Also, Jesus said, "All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given."

                Do you really believe that understanding the gospel is passed from words to words? You are mistaken, the reason you would not receive mine is because we are actually divided in wisdom. Man cannot pass wisdom to another. You can read the Scripture from cover to cover as many times as you want, but you will never ever learn from them unless God will give it to you.

                As for why I do these things, it is what I am called to do. But you received authority from men, or are working on your own will.
                ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
                ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
                https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by FarEastBird View Post
                  Don"t you remember what John said? "A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven."

                  Also, Jesus said, "All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given."

                  Do you really believe that understanding the gospel is passed from words to words? You are mistaken, the reason you would not receive mine is because we are actually divided in wisdom. Man cannot pass wisdom to another. You can read the Scripture from cover to cover as many times as you want, but you will never ever learn from them unless God will give it to you.

                  As for why I do these things, it is what I am called to do. But you received authority from men, or are working on your own will.
                  I have no authority. I'm just repeating what the Bible says for the most part. Snark can be Biblical. I just want to know how it makes sense for another human to tell me that the message of salvation can only come directly from God and yet seems to be telling how to get saved? Explain this quandary, oh wise prophet.
                  If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                    I have no authority. I'm just repeating what the Bible says for the most part. Snark can be Biblical.
                    Well, haven't you realized that the Jews have, for a long time, followed the word of God, and have never understood it; not until Christ came?

                    Another point is that reading the Bible is the same as hearing the word of God in parables. It is different when you really understand those parables. Don't presume that you have the ability interpret the parables on your own. Even the prophets who prophesied and gave to us the OT did not truly understand the OT themselves, though the OT guides us to faith (Luke 10:24).

                    Jesus himself explain to the disciples his parables, yet it was only after the Christ's resurrection when he revealed to them on how to understand the Scriptures. So, even if you may have a chance of getting correctly the parables, you may not be able to understand it's relation to the Scripture, or the gospel.


                    I just want to know how it makes sense for another human to tell me that the message of salvation can only come directly from God and yet seems to be telling how to get saved? Explain this quandary, oh wise prophet.
                    Understanding the gospel, comes with the ability to receive it. Part of the ability is to have the mental maturity. For example, a person can teach Calculus, but only those who are able can learn it.

                    Do you think you can teach a person how to love? No, you can't. Yet part of getting to understand God is to know what love is. It is only God who can change our hearts. (((Search yourselves)))

                    The law itself guides us until we come to faith. Yet many subject themselves to the law in most of their lives, but they do not really understand faith. Unless God gives the person the maturity of mind, and a changed heart, that person cannot find out the truth of God.

                    So, understand from these things why I said that I cannot teach anyone, though, obviously, I am persuading you to come into the knowledge of God. And what I was saying above is the reason why we ought not to understand things by the letter, the word of God is enveloped in a matured mind, and a changed heart; without which one cannot perceive and understand the word as the word of faith.

                    The irony of these is that if you have understood the salvation of Christ, you would not have asked me this. You know that Christ himself said that the salvation of man has nothing to do with man's will; so in turn you are questioning Christ who sent the apostles who told us to work out our salvation.

                    But for your learning, the way to faith is to be schooled by the law. Just because the apostles tells us to work out our salvation, does not mean that they are not leading us to faith. No, rather, as I said in one of my post in this thread, and to paraphrase it accordingly in this discussion: the law should be given to us, so that we would come to know that we cannot justify ourselves through the law. And when we come to know that we are not able to justify ourselves through the law, that then we seek the other way of salvation, which is grace through faith.

                    Now, one may think that I have explained already the salvation, and that when people accepted it they were saved. No, those who are elected were changed into a new creature; God had changed their hearts, and had given them maturity of mind. The reason people behave ill is because God had not changed their hearts. The reason why people believe their salvation is through faith and works, or of not having understanding between faith and works, is because God had not given them the maturity of mind.


                    .
                    ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
                    ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
                    https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by FarEastBird View Post
                      Another point is that reading the Bible is the same as hearing the word of God in parables. It is different when you really understand those parables. Don't presume that you have the ability interpret the parables on your own. Even the prophets who prophesied and gave to us the OT did not truly understand the OT themselves, though the OT guides us to faith (Luke 10:24).
                      But FEB is mature enough to understand what no one else - or at least most of the rest of us - are just not spiritual enough to understand.
                      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                        But FEB is mature enough to understand what no one else - or at least most of the rest of us - are just not spiritual enough to understand.

                        Knowledge of truth isn't judged by popularity.

                        Paul said, "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."

                        If you judge me of something you do not know, how does that make you a judge? Judge me of things you know......not by popularity.
                        ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
                        ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
                        https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Unsubscribing -- nothing of value here.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Agreed. His biblically illiterate eisegesis is nauseating.
                            That's what
                            - She

                            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                            Stephen R. Donaldson

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                              But FEB is mature enough to understand what no one else - or at least most of the rest of us - are just not spiritual enough to understand.
                              The world is again blinded of the truth; this is what the prophesies says. The first resurrection had passed(Rev 20:6). When Christ came, those who believed in his word did not die(John 11:25, 5:24).


                              But search what this prophesy meant:

                              Isa 52:15
                              15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

                              Rom 15:21
                              21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.


                              I am waiting for the above prophesy to be fulfilled. If the Spirit of God is in you, the Spirit will tell you things to come.
                              ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
                              ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
                              https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                                And YOU have to note what Paul says about God ALWAYS keeping a remnant of Israel to Himself. You err and do not know the scriptures. See Romans 9

                                27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel:
                                “Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea,
                                only the remnant will be saved.
                                Check what you said to what the prophesies say. I do not even know how you came up of the idea of '"ALWAYS" keeping a remnant.' Your reading into the verse your belief that does not fit to the prophesies, nor to the literal interpretation of the verse you quoted. Inserting your word "ALWAYS" changes the message of the verse. Read what you quoted: "THE remnant."

                                Christ came to gather Israel, Jesus himself said so (Matt 15:24), and it was Paul whom Christ sent to be the apostles to the Gentiles (Acts 9:15). When the apostles were preaching, it was even Paul himself who said to the Jews: "... It was NECESSARY that the word of God should FIRST have been spoken to you....." (Acts 13:46)

                                The reason why it was necessary that the Jews should be first to hear the gospel is because that according to God's promises to Israel, unless they fell to unbelief the kingdom would remain to them. But, according to the parable of Christ himself, the Jews will reject him and the judgment that Christ spoke against the nation was fulfilled in 70 AD when the Jerusalem was laid to ruins.

                                So, when Christ came to gather Israel, he knew that Israel will not be gathered, even as said in the prophecy in Isaiah 49:5. Rather, Jesus spoke of other flock, a different group, beside the disciples' flock/group, that will come in his name (John 10:16); and this was prophesied in Isaiah 56:8. It was this flock of disciples who will be saved in those times that is referred as "the remnant."


                                I know what Paul is saying. And I know the context. Your salad bar approach can't account for the remnant of Romans 9
                                You miserably misunderstood even the verse you quoted.


                                Rubbish! It was God's plan all along to include the Gentiles in the house of faith. The promise of redemption was made to the offspring of Adam and Eve.
                                Well, you have no idea how God is making a "demonstration" on the mystery of his salvation through events. So you are actually missing what message that Paul was truly trying to convey.


                                Nope. He said that it would come FROM the Jews, meaning Jesus was a Jew. And as the inheritor of the promise of the firstborn due to Esau's selling it, the Jews would receive first rights to salvation before the Gentiles would be allowed.

                                Romans 1:16

                                For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
                                You are making God unjust because of your misled gospel. Such is truly disgusting in the eyes of God.

                                When we come to the truth of salvation, salvation was according to God's plan even before the world begun,. An elect was saved according to God's plan even before the world began (2Tim 1:9). Even though God was making promises to certain person, or people, his word was meant to be taken spiritually not literally. And so Paul, in his gospel, explains whom were the true subject of the promises: the children of faith, whether Jews or Gentiles (Rom 4:9-24, Gal 3:7).

                                Romans 1:16 has nothing to do with Esau, nor your personal interpretation which you are alluding.

                                What Romans 1:16 is saying is that the gospel will bring salvation to those who will believe it. The gospel came from Christ and revealed it to the disciples who were Jews, and then the disciples has to preach the gospel to the Jews FIRST (Acts 13:46). So, salvation through hearing the gospel came to the Jews first..........and then to the Gentiles!!!!

                                Again, you miserably failed to understand a single verse.


                                No. It has always been by grace that we are saved through faith. See Hebrews 11.
                                The fall of the Jews is a demonstration of the mystery of the salvation of God, it does not literally meant that there were no Gentiles that were saved before the Jews fell into blindness. It is the same way of demonstrating God's salvation through circumcision that was given to Abraham and his children. You are misunderstanding the demonstration of the mystery of God's salvation.

                                And that has nothing to do with the entire Jewish race apostatizing.
                                The Jews had to fail, else the salvation would still belong to them....or else you make God unjust for failing to do his promises to them, even to David. Not only that, you would even make it unfair for God to punish the nation as a whole.

                                You see, the gospel leads us to understand the "righteousness" of God (Rom 1:17). Presenting God as unjust in his salvation proves that you are misunderstanding the gospel.
                                Last edited by FarEastBird; 10-29-2014, 07:53 PM.
                                ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
                                ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
                                https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

                                Comment

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