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Heresy on Rapture

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  • Heresy on Rapture

    I'm sad of people who believe such false prophets trying to wrestle the word of God to their destruction.


    First, does one really believe that there will be a kingdom of God in the sky, or heaven? Such is an utter folly, because God cannot contain the heaven of heavens. (1King 8:27).


    Does one really believe that there is really a place in heaven where Christ is sitting on the right hand of God? Read Isaiah 66:1, was heaven really speaking of spatial term? If you'll answer yes, you surely need more grow on spiritual understanding.


    The kingdom in heaven is actually established and the apostles were already sitting in their thrones. Paul said,


    Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and MADE us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


    Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath TRANSLATED us into the kingdom of his dear Son:


    Obviously, these people who teach rapture does not really understand the prophecy, nor the kingdom of God.


    One thing, the earth will be given to the elect to dwell on earth forever (Psalm 37:9, 22, 29). And contrary to those rapture teachers, the earth will become the kingdom of God and his Christ!!!!! (Revelation 11:15).


    If one really know what the kingdom of God is all about, he will not entertain such heresy.
    ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
    ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
    https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

  • #2
    So are you to be understood that those teachings are to be understood to contradict ". . . we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: . . . "

    " . . . deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus . . . . "

    ". . . επειτα ημεις οι ζωντες οι περιλειπομενοι αμα συν αυτοις αρπαγησομεθα εν νεφελαις εις απαντησιν του κυριου εις αερα και ουτως παντοτε συν κυριω εσομεθα . . . . "
    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

    Comment


    • #3
      Trying to work out what Stephen saw if this be true.
      Seems to me that God's presence in the world is primarily the Holy Spirit.
      Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and MADE us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
      "Heavenly" is an adjective. "Places" isn't in the Koine Greek text - "heavenly places" is a condition, not a location.
      More direct translation: "He seated us in the heavenly" expository - "he gathered us together to sit in that which is of heaven."
      Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath TRANSLATED us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
      And again, "translated" refers equally to a change of circumstance or place.
      sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 37818 View Post
        So are you to be understood that those teachings are to be understood to contradict ". . . we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: . . . "

        " . . . deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus . . . . "

        ". . . επειτα ημεις οι ζωντες οι περιλειπομενοι αμα συν αυτοις αρπαγησομεθα εν νεφελαις εις απαντησιν του κυριου εις αερα και ουτως παντοτε συν κυριω εσομεθα . . . . "
        Look what Christ said:

        Matt 26:64
        .....nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

        You knew well, I believe, that we do not always take the words in the Bible literally. Do you really believe that the "stars" fell on earth? Do you believe the "dragon" to be a dragon? So, for the sake of argument, try to reconcile, or explain, Psalm 32:29 and Rev 11:15 with your belief of 1Thess 4:17. Take note of Matt 26:64.
        ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
        ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
        https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tabibito View Post
          .... "heavenly places" is a condition, not a location.
          Yes

          ..."translated" refers equally to a change of circumstance or place.
          Saying "translatED" meant that Paul is implying circumstance, right?

          Actually I noted also the past tensed "made" of the previous verse.

          Point is, Paul is speaking alive and well on earth while claiming to be in the kingdom of heaven already.
          ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
          ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
          https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            Point is, Paul is speaking alive and well on earth while claiming to be in the kingdom of heaven already.
            That is correct. As with any kingdom/realm, the area of that realm extends beyond its centre. Paul made no claim to be in heaven, but to be in the kingdom of heaven - in the area where heaven rules.
            sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by FarEastBird View Post
              I'm sad of people who believe such false prophets trying to wrestle the word of God to their destruction.


              First, does one really believe that there will be a kingdom of God in the sky, or heaven? Such is an utter folly, because God cannot contain the heaven of heavens. (1King 8:27).
              No, it's the other way around. The highest place in Heaven cannot contain God.
              The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

              [T]he truth Iím after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -ó Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by truthseeker View Post
                no, it's the other way around. The highest place in heaven cannot contain god.
                ROTFLOL

                and again......

                ROTFLOL
                Last edited by FarEastBird; 08-11-2014, 08:36 PM.
                ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
                ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
                https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  I noticed that you transformed all the capitalized letters into lower case in your quote of my last post. Your bizarre response just above made me wonder: Are you a ?
                  The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                  [T]he truth Iím after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -ó Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                    That is correct. As with any kingdom/realm, the area of that realm extends beyond its centre. Paul made no claim to be in heaven, but to be in the kingdom of heaven - in the area where heaven rules.
                    You have a better understanding of the kingdom of God. Now you have to learn how the Church come into play with that said "kingdom of God."

                    God bless,
                    FEB
                    ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
                    ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
                    https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                      I noticed that you transformed all the capitalized letters into lower case in your quote of my last post. Your bizarre response just above made me wonder: Are you a ?
                      Oh... I thought you are making a big joke.

                      Perhaps I was too dull.....


                      So, what do you refer as the "highest" place?

                      Does the "lower" place can contain the area of the "highest" place? Why?
                      Last edited by FarEastBird; 08-11-2014, 09:07 PM.
                      ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
                      ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
                      https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        FarEastBird, maybe you don't know about the "Reply With Quote" function, which is on the right (as you view the screen) of the "Reply" function.
                        The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                        [T]he truth Iím after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -ó Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by FarEastBird View Post
                          You have a better understanding of the kingdom of God. Now you have to learn how the Church come into play with that said "kingdom of God."

                          God bless,
                          FEB
                          I already know that.
                          sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FarEastBird View Post
                            Look what Christ said:

                            Matt 26:64
                            .....nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
                            So are you saying Jesus is not literally in heaven and ". . . while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." -- Acts 1:9-11, is really just metaphor?



                            You knew well, I believe, that we do not always take the words in the Bible literally. Do you really believe that the "stars" fell on earth? Do you believe the "dragon" to be a dragon?
                            What do you think I believe? I have been a long time amateur astronomer, as long as I have been a Christian.
                            So, for the sake of argument, try to reconcile, or explain, Psalm 32:29 and Rev 11:15 with your belief of 1Thess 4:17. Take note of Matt 26:64.
                            Psalm 32:29 there is no such holy scripture.
                            Revelation 11:15. ". . . And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." This event has not yet happened, it is yet future.
                            1 Thessalonians 4:17, ". . . Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." Refers to the rapture.

                            So what is your supposed problem which you want me to answer?
                            Last edited by 37818; 08-25-2014, 08:54 PM.
                            . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              So are you saying Jesus is not literally in heaven and ". . . while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." -- Acts 1:9-11, is really just metaphor?
                              No, I don't believe that Christ truly went to a celestial place where he literally sat on the right hand of God. For speaking of the kingdom of God, and literally speaking of spatial sense, Isaiah says, " Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?" (Isaiah 66:1) On the other hand, Paul was verily much alive when he wrote, " But God, ..... hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)2 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"(Eph 2:4-6) Paul is alive and he already sits in the heavenly places. Christ himself said, "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17:20-21). See also what Christ said in Matthew 8:11-12:

                              11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matt 8:11-12

                              Note where is the referred kingdom of heaven is. The said gathering of the saints implies that it will happen here on earth, yet it was said that they will sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

                              Also, two people ascended to heaven, Enoch and Elijah, but were not said to be taken in the kingdom of God. The same, Christ ascension to heaven does not necessarily mean that he went to a celestial place.

                              Psalm 32:29 there is no such holy scripture.
                              Revelation 11:15. ". . . And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." This event has not yet happened, it is yet future.
                              1 Thessalonians 4:17, ". . . Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." Refers to the rapture.

                              So what is your supposed problem which you want me to answer?
                              My error, I was referring of Psalms 37:29, which says, "The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever."

                              Revelation 11:15 gives us a clear message that the kingdom of God will be established here on earth forever, which will happen as what God promised in Psalm 37:29 that the righteous shall inherit the earth.

                              What 1Thessalonians 4:17 says is simply an spiritual experience as when Paul was made to sit in the heavenly places. In verse 16, Christ himself will descend from heaven, meaning he will be here on earth. AFAIK, the promise to Christ is to inherit the kingdom of David that has no end. Very much in line with the prophecy on Rev 11:15, and Psalms 37:29.
                              ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
                              ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
                              https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

                              Comment

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