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Chiefsinners Subduing Creation derail

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Because you seem to have the gift of babble. You seem to use a lot of words ans scriptures in a way that doesn't really get a cogent point across.

    When you're dealing with a new Christian, they often have no biblical foundation, so simply supplying a stream of unrelated scripture verses is not what they need.
    You are confusing the objective: the goal here is not to teach "new" Christians instantaneously, it is to steadily ground them in their responsibilities. If you persevere, you will find that the burden is indeed light, so don't jump the gun, all will be made clear soon.

    The answers may seem unrelated, but we are not dealing with expensive and rare parchment here. You can keep asking and the answers can be reframed, reiterated till the point is sent across (or you find holes in the logic).

    Next question. Ahem...
    Last edited by footwasher; 08-29-2020, 09:29 AM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Chiefsinner View Post
      If we answer the question related to a part of the idea, we will understand the main idea.

      Can we consider that the Promised Land, Rest, is a type, representation of the promise to Abraham, about his descendants definitely being blessings to the world?

      Can we consider that those who are considered descendants will be identified by faith, confidence, like Abraham had?

      Can we consider that Israel failed to match up to that requirement?
      Can you just answer me plainly instead of asking riddle questions? Are you afraid to explain what you mean? If you ask me what I believe about something I will explain simply and in detail without asking questions instead.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Chiefsinner View Post
        You are confusing the objective: the goal here is not to teach "new" Christians instantaneously, it is to steadily ground them in their responsibilities. If you persevere, you will find that the burden is indeed light, so don't jump the gun, all will be made clear soon.

        The answers may seem unrelated, but we are not dealing with expensive and rare parchment here. You can keep asking and the answers can be reframed, reiterated till the point is sent across (or you find holes in the logic).

        Next question. Ahem...
        What do you mean by "First, you can confirm if a person is saved by his ability to subdue creation."

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Chiefsinner View Post
          You are confusing the objective: the goal here is not to teach "new" Christians instantaneously, it is to steadily ground them in their responsibilities. If you persevere, you will find that the burden is indeed light, so don't jump the gun, all will be made clear soon.

          The answers may seem unrelated, but we are not dealing with expensive and rare parchment here. You can keep asking and the answers can be reframed, reiterated till the point is sent across (or you find holes in the logic).

          Next question. Ahem...
          I'm an old fashioned soul winner and discipler -- nothing you say sounds like what we do when we have a new convert and are encouraging them in the faith.

          It sounds, with all due respect, like you're trying to write a high falutin' "how to" manual, instead of just saying "here's what we do".
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            What do you mean by "First, you can confirm if a person is saved by his ability to subdue creation."
            Rahab and Nicodemus are good examples of elements of creation being subdued. They became interested in being what Caleb (in Rahab's case) and Jesus were. How did Caleb and Jesus become blessings to the world (Rahab and Nicodemus were turned away from serving mammon to serving God, right?)? By passing a test, what Scripture calls God's voice, asking them to prove they trusted God to rescue them from the crises He placed in front of them: the Canaanite army in one case and hunger and thirst in the wilderness, in the other:

            Hebrews 5:8Although he was the Son, he learned obedience from what he suffered.

            ........

            Hebrews 4:7He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
            “TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
            DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS.”

            8For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 9So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Chiefsinner View Post
              Rahab and Nicodemus are good examples of elements of creation being subdued. They became interested in being what Caleb (in Rahab's case) and Jesus were. How did Caleb and Jesus become blessings to the world (Rahab and Nicodemus were turned away from serving mammon to serving God, right?)? By passing a test, what Scripture calls God's voice, asking them to prove they trusted God to rescue them from the crises He placed in front of them: the Canaanite army in one case and hunger and thirst in the wilderness, in the other:

              Hebrews 5:8Although he was the Son, he learned obedience from what he suffered.

              ........

              Hebrews 4:7He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
              “TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
              DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS.”

              8For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 9So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
              What are you talking about? Jesus is God the Son. He created the universe. Creation bows to him because he made it. Jesus didn't have to pass any test to be our savior. Are you saying that you can't be saved unless God puts you in danger and then saves you from that danger?

              How do you think a person becomes saved, Chiefsinner?

              here is what I think. They believe in God and Jesus and understand that they are sinners. They ask Jesus to be their lord and savior and forgive them of their sins. Then they are saved. They receive the Holy Spirit and become a new creation in God. Once they are saved, they get baptized (or that could happen at the same time). Then they follow Christ and grow in sanctification and knowledge.

              There are no requirements of works. No needing to be tested first, no need to "subdue creation"

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Chiefsinner View Post
                Amazon began as an online organization, now they are present in brick and mortar too. Even churches can do this, everything can be offered online. TWeb is already a type of church.
                You can't have the same experience as worshiping with a group of people. After not being in church for about six months so, I have come to realize that group worship is what I miss the most. Having done some on-line, it's just not the same.
                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Chiefsinner View Post
                  Saved from what? And how do you know that you have been saved?


                  The video should not only ask questions (any fool can ask questions that even a genius cannot answer), but also provide answers. First, you can confirm if a person is saved by his ability to subdue creation. Which depends on if he has entered rest. Which in turn depends on if he has passed testing if his faith is real. In turn depending on if he has a different spirit. In turn, on if he has seen God’s great works. In turn on if he has been told that he must agree with what Jesus taught, that he can subdue creation if he has the ability to be rescued from danger, even death if he believes God can rescue him when he puts himself in danger before creation. Which agreement needs to be proved to be true by obeying God’s voice to face danger, in Jesus’s time, by leaving worldly things like father, mother, home, property etc.

                  Second, if the person is confirmed to have the ability to subdue creation, then we know that he has been saved, restored to Adam’s original status.
                  You do realize the audience for this video is the saved? The only question in the OP was what points would someone put into their video directed at a saved person. I fully expect it would have answers in it.
                  "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                  "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    What are you talking about? Jesus is God the Son. He created the universe. Creation bows to him because he made it. Jesus didn't have to pass any test to be our savior. Are you saying that you can't be saved unless God puts you in danger and then saves you from that danger?

                    How do you think a person becomes saved, Chiefsinner?

                    here is what I think. They believe in God and Jesus and understand that they are sinners. They ask Jesus to be their lord and savior and forgive them of their sins. Then they are saved. They receive the Holy Spirit and become a new creation in God. Once they are saved, they get baptized (or that could happen at the same time). Then they follow Christ and grow in sanctification and knowledge.

                    There are no requirements of works. No needing to be tested first, no need to "subdue creation"
                    Israel believed God could carry her into the promise given to Abraham , becoming a blessing to the world. God taught her that she needed to build up her faith, so that when she passed a test for her faith, she would be placed in a position to become blessings to the world. The Israelites agreed. So He created calamities, and rescued them, in the incidents of hunger and thirst in the wilderness. The incidents were supposed to teach them that God always saved when a believer picks up a cross, like Abraham learnt from his rescues from Abhimelech and Pharoah. But they did not remember, forgot the great works God had done, did not learn obedience from suffering, so when God tested them by asking them to risk their lives by going into Canaan against the Canaanite army, they refused and He did not allow them to be ordained for becoming blessings to the world, because of unbelief. Of course Abraham never immediately became a blessing to the world either:

                    Hebrews 11: 39And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

                    Jesus believed God could carry Him into the promise given to Abraham , becoming a blessing to the world. God taught Him that He needed to build up His faith, so that when He passed a test for His faith, He would be placed in a position to become a blessing to the world. He agreed. So God created calamities, and rescued Him, in the incidents of hunger and thirst in the wilderness. These incidents were supposed to teach Him that God always saved when a believer picks up a cross, like Abraham learnt from his rescues from Abhimelech and Pharoah, so when God tested Him with Isaac, he was confident that God would raise his son up. Jesus did remember, did not forget the great works God had done, did learn obedience from suffering, and God allowed Him to become a blessing to the world, because of His obedience. Every time He picked up a cross, by trying to do a miracle or explaining a difficult Scripture, God worked to prove He did it by the finger of God, so that when He took the risk and was raised up, He drew people to God, confirming He had become a blessing to the world.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Chiefsinner View Post
                      Israel believed God could carry her into the promise given to Abraham , becoming a blessing to the world. God taught her that she needed to build up her faith, so that when she passed a test for her faith, she would be placed in a position to become blessings to the world. The Israelites agreed. So He created calamities, and rescued them, in the incidents of hunger and thirst in the wilderness. The incidents were supposed to teach them that God always saved when a believer picks up a cross, like Abraham learnt from his rescues from Abhimelech and Pharoah. But they did not remember, forgot the great works God had done, did not learn obedience from suffering, so when God tested them by asking them to risk their lives by going into Canaan against the Canaanite army, they refused and He did not allow them to be ordained for becoming blessings to the world, because of unbelief. Of course Abraham never immediately became a blessing to the world either:

                      Hebrews 11: 39And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, 40because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.

                      Jesus believed God could carry Him into the promise given to Abraham , becoming a blessing to the world. God taught Him that He needed to build up His faith, so that when He passed a test for His faith, He would be placed in a position to become a blessing to the world. He agreed. So God created calamities, and rescued Him, in the incidents of hunger and thirst in the wilderness. These incidents were supposed to teach Him that God always saved when a believer picks up a cross, like Abraham learnt from his rescues from Abhimelech and Pharoah, so when God tested Him with Isaac, he was confident that God would raise his son up. Jesus did remember, did not forget the great works God had done, did learn obedience from suffering, and God allowed Him to become a blessing to the world, because of His obedience. Every time He picked up a cross, by trying to do a miracle or explaining a difficult Scripture, God worked to prove He did it by the finger of God, so that when He took the risk and was raised up, He drew people to God, confirming He had become a blessing to the world.
                      What a load of hooey.

                      Do you believe in the trinity? That Jesus is God? That God the Son came to earth and took on flesh?
                      Or do you think Jesus was simply a human who was just had powers while he was in tune with God and obedient?

                      What denomination or sect do you belong to?
                      Last edited by Sparko; 08-30-2020, 11:30 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        What a load of hooey.

                        Do you believe in the trinity? That Jesus is God? That God the Son came to earth and took on flesh?
                        Or do you think Jesus was simply a human who was just had powers while he was in tune with God and obedient?

                        What denomination or sect do you belong to?
                        Scripture says Jesus emptied Himself, that He did not think His glory was something to be hung on to. Otherwise how could He prove it was possible for Him to convince His followers to do what He did? And how do you explain this:

                        Hebrews 5:8But even though he was God's Son, he learned through his sufferings to be obedient.

                        BTW do you know what "docetism" teaches?

                        Definition
                        Gnosticism, that Christ's body was not human but either a phantasm or of real but celestial substance, and that therefore his sufferings were only apparent.
                        Last edited by footwasher; 08-30-2020, 02:14 PM.

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                        • #27
                          We ain't docetists. But you can't make the mistake of denying Christ being divine. Jesus is fully God and fully man.
                          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Chiefsinner View Post
                            Scripture says Jesus emptied Himself, that He did not think His glory was something to be hung on to. Otherwise how could He prove it was possible for Him to convince His followers to do what He did? And how do you explain this:

                            Hebrews 5:8But even though he was God's Son, he learned through his sufferings to be obedient.

                            BTW do you know what "docetism" teaches?

                            Definition
                            Gnosticism, that Christ's body was not human but either a phantasm or of real but celestial substance, and that therefore his sufferings were only apparent.
                            Do you consider yourself to be a prophet?
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              He thinks he knows more than I do....
                              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                                He thinks he knows more than I do....
                                Don't let him get to you, CBW.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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