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Unorthodox Theology 201 Guidelines

Theists only.

This forum area is primarily for persons who would identify themselves as Christians whether or not their theology is recognized within the mainstream or as orthodox though other theists may participate with moderator permission. Therefore those that would be restricted from posting in Christianity 201 due to a disagreement with the enumerated doctrines, ie the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment may freely post here on any theological subject matter. In this case "unorthodox" is used in the strict sense of a person who denies what has been declared as universal essentials of the historic Christian faith. Examples would be adherents to Oneness, Full Preterists, Unitarian Universalist Christians, Gnostics, Liberal Christianity, Christian Science to name a few.

The second purpose will be for threads on subjects, which although the thread starter has no issue with the above doctrines, the subject matter is so very outside the bounds of normative Christian doctrine totally within the leadership's discretion that it is placed here. In so doing, no judgment or offense is intended to be placed on the belief of said person in the above-doctrines. In this case "unorthodox" is used in a much looser sense of "outside the norms" - Examples of such threads would be pro-polygamy, pro-drug use, proponents of gay Christian churches, proponents of abortion.

The third purpose is for persons who wish to have input from any and all who would claim the title of Christian even on subjects that would be considered "orthodox."

The philosophy behind this area was to recognize that there are persons who would identify themselves as Christian and thus seem out of place in the Comparative Religions Forum, but yet in keeping with our committment here to certain basic core Christian doctrines. Also, it allows threads to be started by those who would want to still be identified as Christian with a particular belief that while not denying an essential is of such a nature that the discussion on that issue belongs in this section or for threads by persons who wish such a non-restricted discussion.


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  • #31
    Hello Cerebrum123. How do you figure?

    Where does Jesus go beyond equality with God? ...or beyond what the image and likeness of God was purposed to be from the beginning?

    What do you make of Cow Poke's footer verse, "...for there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ..."?

    What did Jesus mean when he testified of His Father, that He is the only true God? ...and does he really contradict himself somewhere else?

    Where, in all of scripture, is there presented a Son of God that is not found in His image and likeness? ...in the form of a man. Now, there is a pattern revealed in the Seven Day account of a "son" called "of dawn " wherein both Adam and Jesus can be comprehended, but the reality is found only in one. Jesus, the Christ, Son of the Living God (in the fullness of time).
    Last edited by Jeff; 12-02-2018, 01:38 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
      Yet you miss the fact He claimed to be God both explicitly and implicitly.
      Minor detail, Brum... minor detail... after all, it was only the Creator and Master of the Universe making that claim, and He never lies......
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Jeff View Post
        Hello Cerebrum123. How do you figure?
        Because it is literally in the Bible over and over again. Some of the Jews at the time wanted to stone Jesus for blasphemy, because they understood what He was claiming.

        John 8:57-59 New International Version (NIV)
        57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

        58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

        Notice that He doesn't say "I was", but "I am". This is referencing the name YHWH in Hebrew, as well as this passage in Exodus.

        Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.[c] This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

        Where does Jesus go beyond equality with God? ...or beyond what the image and likeness of God was purposed to be from the beginning?
        If you are equal to God, you are God. No "beyond" there, because that is impossible.

        What do you make of Cow Poke's footer verse, "...for there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ..."?

        What did Jesus mean when he testified of His Father, that He is the only true God? ...and does he really contradict himself somewhere else?
        No, He doesn't contradict Himself, but He does contradict your understanding of God's nature.

        Where, in all of scripture, is there presented a Son of God that is not found in His image and likeness? ...in the form of a man. Now, there is a pattern revealed in the Seven Day account of a "son" called "of dawn " wherein both Adam and Jesus can be comprehended, but the reality is found only in one. Jesus, the Christ, Son of the Living God (in the fullness of time).

        I don't even know what your question is supposed to mean. It comes off as word salad more than anything.

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        • #34
          Hello sir. You are correct. Jesus never contradicts himself. So, the Father is the only true God. The Speaker in the Seven Day account. His Word is this God in creation. The Speaker is invisible and intangible to creation except by His Word. The Speaker is the only true God. He spoke in the beginning, in the past through the prophets and in various ways, and in these last days by His only begotten Son. Present whatever scriptures you like. Yeshua spoke nothing but what he was taught by the Speaker... his Father and ours. Is this not obvious? The end of the matter testifies against you... when the Speaker takes back His authority and will in the end be all in all. And we will be like our Yeshua seeing Him as He is. Did we exist in eternity past? Can you really see what existed there... where no eye has seen except the Speaker and the One in whom His Word dwelt bodily? Like my Lord... I do not speak on my own. Only what I have seen and heard from above. I guess John was right to say "...the light shines in the darkness and darkness has not understood it...". Word salad to ears that cannot hear what has been plainly spoken.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Jeff View Post
            ...Word salad to ears that cannot hear what has been plainly spoken.
            Word salad to those of us who have been around a while and have encountered others who seem to think they have "special knowledge" not apparent to the rest of us.

            Have a great day, Jeff.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Jeff View Post
              Hello sir. You are correct. Jesus never contradicts himself. So, the Father is the only true God. The Speaker in the Seven Day account. His Word is this God in creation. The Speaker is invisible and intangible to creation except by His Word. The Speaker is the only true God. He spoke in the beginning, in the past through the prophets and in various ways, and in these last days by His only begotten Son. Present whatever scriptures you like. Yeshua spoke nothing but what he was taught by the Speaker... his Father and ours. Is this not obvious? The end of the matter testifies against you... when the Speaker takes back His authority and will in the end be all in all. And we will be like our Yeshua seeing Him as He is. Did we exist in eternity past? Can you really see what existed there... where no eye has seen except the Speaker and the One in whom His Word dwelt bodily? Like my Lord... I do not speak on my own. Only what I have seen and heard from above. I guess John was right to say "...the light shines in the darkness and darkness has not understood it...". Word salad to ears that cannot hear what has been plainly spoken.
              Except for that last poorly worded question I answered you point by point. You haven't answered any of the issues I brought up, so far it's looking like you can't.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                Except for that last poorly worded question I answered you point by point. You haven't answered any of the issues I brought up, so far it's looking like you can't.
                This is almost like trying to discuss things with Mickiel, except that Jeff is polite and intelligent. Still, I think, a huge waste of time.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Quick question Jeff, how exactly do you interpret John 10:30?

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    This is almost like trying to discuss things with Mickiel, except that Jeff is polite and intelligent. Still, I think, a huge waste of time.
                    And he doesn't claim to walk alone, in the darkness.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      ...one God ...in three persons ...existing in eternity past. The great Trinitarian deduction.

                      Who is it claiming "special" knowledge? Not I. Promised knowledge is what I have obtain by the working of my faith. God cannot be working in a man both to will and to do of His good pleasure without the man's cooperation.

                      You have an awesome day as well, Cow Poke.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Hello sir. "...I and my Father are one...". This is what I have been speaking of. How it is that they are One. A like verse is "...a man in whom the fullness of God dwelt bodily...". God's Word being the fullness of the Father indwelling His only begotten Son... the man Jesus Christ.

                        May I ask where your interpretation came from? My view comes from above as I diligently seek Him who sent my Lord into the world. I hear His voice and need not a man to teach me. And so I testify of the things being formed in me as I abide in my Lord and He in me. In a real sense I can speak the same as Him saying "...I and my Lord are one...". I am finding, however, that this form of speach doesn't set well with most... though Jesus promised such a unity to them that believe.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Jeff View Post
                          Who is it claiming "special" knowledge? ....
                          Pretty much you... right here...

                          Originally posted by Jeff View Post
                          ...Word salad to ears that cannot hear what has been plainly spoken.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Jeff View Post
                            ...one God ...in three persons ...existing in eternity past. The great Trinitarian deduction.

                            Who is it claiming "special" knowledge? Not I. Promised knowledge is what I have obtain by the working of my faith. God cannot be working in a man both to will and to do of His good pleasure without the man's cooperation.

                            You have an awesome day as well, Cow Poke.
                            It's not "special knowledge", but logical deduction based on certain information.

                            The Father is God, Jesus is God*, the Holy Spirit is God.

                            The Father is not the same person as Jesus or the Holy Spirit.

                            There is only one true God.

                            Based on this information the only option that takes all of it into account is the Trinity.

                            *As He has repeatedly demonstrated, and claimed as such Himself.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Jeff View Post
                              Hello sir. "...I and my Father are one...". This is what I have been speaking of. How it is that they are One. A like verse is "...a man in whom the fullness of God dwelt bodily...". God's Word being the fullness of the Father indwelling His only begotten Son... the man Jesus Christ.
                              If the fullness of God is in someone, they are God.

                              May I ask where your interpretation came from? My view comes from above as I diligently seek Him who sent my Lord into the world. I hear His voice and need not a man to teach me. And so I testify of the things being formed in me as I abide in my Lord and He in me. In a real sense I can speak the same as Him saying "...I and my Lord are one...". I am finding, however, that this form of speach doesn't set well with most... though Jesus promised such a unity to them that believe.
                              No, you are not God, so you can't claim such unity for yourself. Jesus proved Himself to be one with the Father through miracles, most importantly the Resurrection.

                              None of this is special esoteric knowledge like you are claiming to have. You really need to go an look at the history of why the doctrine of the Trinity was formed, and what evidence it has.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                                *As He has repeatedly demonstrated, and claimed as such Himself.
                                So, who do you believe?

                                Jesus Jeff
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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