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Does inspired by God imply perfection?

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  • Does inspired by God imply perfection?

    Many say the bible is inspired by God and they would be right. But being written by men, is it always correct?

    There are two main issues to consider, that being the source material, and the translation. Access to the scriptures in their original language allows people today to check if the translation is acceptable. But what to do when the source material is questionable?

    Being the forgiving type, I have forgotten those few occasions where I ran into something that was contradicted elsewhere, but I remember them being present. Should we wrestle to try to imagine a way they both may be true, or should we accept that one of them may be in error?

    Having never gone to a theological college, I wouldn't know if this has been addressed long ago. So, if some here have experience in this area, what should the proper course be?

  • #2
    From our beliefs....

    The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God’s revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy. It reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. All Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.


    Can man mess it up with bad translations? Oh yeah!
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      From our beliefs....
      Can man mess it up with bad translations? Oh yeah!
      Its been a long time since I ran into what I thought were glaring mistakes. But I seem to recall one was a math error, something like the king had a son when he was 32, and the son took over the kingdom when the king died at the age of 52, but then it would say elsewhere that the son began to reign when he was 18, or something similar. Either the son started to reign before his father died, or the 18 value should have been 20. One of them needs a correction.

      It may be a long while before I run into an example (because I am not reading chapter by chapter and verse by verse much these days) but if I find one, I'll post it to get opinions and guidance.

      Comment


      • #4
        What is meant by "perfection"? There are clear uses of round numbers in the Old Testament. That would be considered an error in a modern day scientific paper. I'm sure telling somebody back then it was a mistake would get you a strange look, though.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          What is meant by "perfection"?
          Cow Poke posted the site's statement of belief to say the bible is true in its entirety. That is more or less what I meant by saying perfection; entirely complete, lacking nothing.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Larry Serflaten View Post
            Many say the bible is inspired by God and they would be right. But being written by men, is it always correct?

            There are two main issues to consider, that being the source material, and the translation. Access to the scriptures in their original language allows people today to check if the translation is acceptable. But what to do when the source material is questionable?

            Being the forgiving type, I have forgotten those few occasions where I ran into something that was contradicted elsewhere, but I remember them being present. Should we wrestle to try to imagine a way they both may be true, or should we accept that one of them may be in error?

            Having never gone to a theological college, I wouldn't know if this has been addressed long ago. So, if some here have experience in this area, what should the proper course be?
            There are errors, yes. The claim that everything in the Bible is inspired by God is explicitly contradicted by Paul's "To the rest I say, not the Lord ... " (1Cor 7:12). Nor is 1 Cor 7:12 the only time Paul makes a similar claim. (there are one or perhaps two similar instances.)


            The two verses cited as demonstrating that the Bible claims all scripture is inspired by God do nothing of the sort.

            2 Peter 1:20-21 is about prophecy of scripture, not about scripture as a whole.

            2 Peter 3:16 is simply a translation error, converting the adjectival phrase into a sentence with an entirely different meaning. The way the translations deal with the adjective "god-inspired" leads inevitably to the adjective being misidentified as a verb (the translation is technically not an error - technically doesn't mean a whole lot in the face of the reality). Depending on the version, "is" or two occurrences of "is" are unwarranted translators' interpolations. If the adjectival phrase is to be translated as a sentence, it should read "every/all God-inspired scripture is profitable ..."

            As to what is taught in Theological colleges - there are glaringly obvious accuracies that notable theologians are pleased to call inaccuracies.
            Last edited by tabibito; 01-28-2024, 12:13 PM.
            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
            .
            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
            Scripture before Tradition:
            but that won't prevent others from
            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
            of the right to call yourself Christian.

            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tabibito View Post


              As to what is taught in Theological colleges - there are glaringly obvious accuracies that notable theologians are pleased to call inaccuracies.
              I like this way of putting it. The first example that comes to mind is all the ink that has been spilled over Matthew's "problematic" use of Hosea 11:1, which doesn't strike me as even discomforting.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                What is meant by "perfection"? There are clear uses of round numbers in the Old Testament. That would be considered an error in a modern day scientific paper. I'm sure telling somebody back then it was a mistake would get you a strange look, though.
                Two examples I can think of: One is in 2 Samuel 5:4-5,
                David was thirty years old when he became king, and he reigned for forty years. At Hebron he reigned over Judah for seven years and six months, and in Jerusalem he reigned for thirty-three years over all Israel and Judah.
                Another would be 2 Chronicles 4:2,
                He also made the Sea of cast metal, ten cubits from brim to brim, circular in form, and its height was five cubits and its circumference thirty cubits.
                When I Survey....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

                  I like this way of putting it. The first example that comes to mind is all the ink that has been spilled over Matthew's "problematic" use of Hosea 11:1, which doesn't strike me as even discomforting.
                  Deh. If anyone thinks that Matthew was making a claim that Hosea had prophesied the "flight to Egypt" in Matt 2:15, he hasn't pulled the verse apart to see precisely what Matthew said. Even if that had been the case, it is, as you say, nothing like a critical issue.
                  1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                  .
                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                  Scripture before Tradition:
                  but that won't prevent others from
                  taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                  of the right to call yourself Christian.

                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Faber View Post

                    Two examples I can think of: One is in 2 Samuel 5:4-5,
                    ? How would that present a problem?

                    Another would be 2 Chronicles 4:2,
                    Not an issue: the bath was flared outward at the brim - as is stated in the following verses, with the diameter of the brim being an internal measurement, and the circumference is an external measurement.

                    On the other hand, the claims about discrepancies in the heights of the pillars "Jachin" and "Boaz" of the temple, and of their capitals, are valid.
                    Last edited by tabibito; 01-28-2024, 02:37 PM.
                    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                    .
                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                    Scripture before Tradition:
                    but that won't prevent others from
                    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                    of the right to call yourself Christian.

                    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Larry Serflaten View Post
                      Cow Poke posted the site's statement of belief to say the bible is true in its entirety.
                      Nope - that was from the SBC "Baptist Faith & Message".

                      That is more or less what I meant by saying perfection; entirely complete, lacking nothing.
                      We would point quickly concede (as I did in the post where I offered it) that there are many versions and translations and paraphrases, etc - that are not perfect my any means.

                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        Nope - that was from the SBC "Baptist Faith & Message".



                        We would point quickly concede (as I did in the post where I offered it) that there are many versions and translations and paraphrases, etc - that are not perfect my any means.
                        My mistake, when you said 'From our beliefs' I assumed you were including the members of this site, on some sort of statement page.

                        Translation errors? Yes, I agree, too many cooks spoil the broth....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                          ? How would that present a problem?



                          Not an issue: the bath was flared outward at the brim - as is stated in the following verses, with the diameter of the brim being an internal measurement, and the circumference is an external measurement.

                          On the other hand, the claims about discrepancies in the heights of the pillars "Jachin" and "Boaz" of the temple, and of their capitals, are valid.
                          Not a problem. Just a confirmation of the statement that the Scripture uses round numbers. As for the brim, if that were ten cubits diameter, then the circumference as an external measurement would have to be greater than 31.41592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375 105 82097494459230781640628620899862803482534211706798 21480865132823066470938446095505822317253594081284 81117450284102701938521105559644622948954930381964 42881097566593344612847564823378678316527120190914 56485669234603486104543266482133936072602491412737 24587006606315588174881520920962829254091715364367 89259036001133053054882046652138414695194151160943 30572703657595919530921861173819326117931051185480 74462379962749567351885752724891227938183011949129 83367336244065664308602139494639522473719070217986 09437027705392171762931767523846748184676694051320 00568127145263560827785771342757789609173637178721 46844090122495343014654958537105079227968925892354 20199561121290219608640344181598136297747713099605 18707211349999998372978049951059731732816096318595 02445945534690830264252230825334468503526193118817 10100031378387528865875332083814206171776691473035 98253490428755468731159562863882353787593751957781 85778053217122680661300192787661119590921642019893 80952572010654858632788659361533818279682303019520 35301852968995773622599413891249721775283479131515 57485724245415069595082953311686172785588907509838 17546374649393192550604009277016711390098488240128 58361603563707660104710181942955596198946767837449 44825537977472684710404753464620804668425906949129 33136770289891521047521620569660240580381501935112 53382430035587640247496473263914199272604269922796 78235478163600934172164121992458631503028618297455 57067498385054945885869269956909272107975093029553 21165344987202755960236480665499119881834797753566 36980742654252786255181841757467289097777279380008 16470600161452491921732172147723501414419735685481 61361157352552133475741849468438523323907394143334 54776241686251898356948556209921922218427255025425 68876717904946016534668049886272327917860857843838 27967976681454100953883786360950680064225125205117 39298489608412848862694560424196528502221066118630 67442786220391949450471237137869609563643719172874 67764657573962413890865832645995813390478027590099 46576407895126946839835259570982582262052248940772 67194782684826014769909026401363944374553050682034 96252451749399651431429809190659250937221696461515 70985838741059788595977297549893016175392846813826 86838689427741559918559252459539594310499725246808 459872736
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                          83438934159613185434754649556978103829309716465143 8407007073604112373599843452
                          25161050702705623526601276484830840761183013052793 2054274628654036036745328651
                          05706587488225698157936789766974220575059683440869 7350201410206723585020072452
                          25632651341055924019027421624843914035998953539459 0944070469120914093870012645
                          60016237428802109276457931065792295524988727584610 1264836999892256959688159205
                          60010165525637568 cubits, approximately.
                          When I Survey....

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Faber View Post

                            Not a problem. Just a confirmation of the statement that the Scripture uses round numbers. As for the brim, if that were ten cubits diameter, then the circumference as an external measurement would have to be greater than 31.415926 etc.
                            Wider at the brim than at the base? Wholly unheard of.
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.

                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                              There are errors, yes. The claim that everything in the Bible is inspired by God is explicitly contradicted by Paul's "To the rest I say, not the Lord ... " (1Cor 7:12). Nor is 1 Cor 7:12 the only time Paul makes a similar claim. (there are one or perhaps two similar instances.)


                              The two verses cited as demonstrating that the Bible claims all scripture is inspired by God do nothing of the sort.

                              2 Peter 1:20-21 is about prophecy of scripture, not about scripture as a whole.

                              2 Peter 3:16 is simply a translation error, converting the adjectival phrase into a sentence with an entirely different meaning. The way the translations deal with the adjective "god-inspired" leads inevitably to the adjective being misidentified as a verb (the translation is technically not an error - technically doesn't mean a whole lot in the face of the reality). Depending on the version, "is" or two occurrences of "is" are unwarranted translators' interpolations. If the adjectival phrase is to be translated as a sentence, it should read "every/all God-inspired scripture is profitable ..."

                              As to what is taught in Theological colleges - there are glaringly obvious accuracies that notable theologians are pleased to call inaccuracies.
                              I don't think anyone said "everything in the bible is inspired by God" but that the scripture is inspired by God. God inspired the authors to write what he wanted them to write. But they also included some things that they wanted to say that was not necessarily inspired by God, thus Paul pointing out those parts in his own writing.

                              On difficult passages, I think you should try to find a way to make it fit with other scripture, rather than just assume it is a contradiction. Especially when the difficult passages written by the same author. You need to read it in context also. Sometimes taking a verse out of context makes it appear to be contradictory but when you put it in context, it doesn't.

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