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Everyone gets Saved, and there is no Hell:

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  • Everyone gets Saved, and there is no Hell:

    The reason that every person throughout humanity does get SAVED is because Jesus paid the punishment (or penalty) in full for all of humanity, and so not even one (1) sinful sheep will remain lost or left out.

    Every claim contrary to that simple truth is just human fear and confusion and absurdities.

    We are to love our enemies just as God loves His enemies = Matthew 5:43-48, and love does not burn people in torment and there is no place of Hell.

    As to the "Lake of Fire" the scriptures say that the fire purifies and cleans the person.
    See it here = If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. KJV, 1 Corinthians 3:15

    The sinful works shall be burned - while the person is SAVED.

  • #2
    I would agree that all men are forgiven; however, the difference seems to be between whether or not a person avails themselves of forgiveness. In this model God doesn't condemn a person to hell (or extinction, etc) but the person chooses it over living loved. I think people can choose to live condemned throughout eternity - condemned by sin, living with the consequences of sin, and so forth.

    This allows for God to completely forgive but the person choosing to live in pain (pain not caused by God or his wrath).
    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

    Comment


    • #3
      Oh, another universalist. Well, what about the folk who don't want to be saved? Forcing them to be in God's presence would still be hell for them. Keep in mind that I believe hell is a state of shame and not a place of fire and torture.
      If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

      Comment


      • #4
        Reply:

        Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
        I would agree that all men are forgiven; however, the difference seems to be between whether or not a person avails themselves of forgiveness. In this model God doesn't condemn a person to hell (or extinction, etc) but the person chooses it over living loved. I think people can choose to live condemned throughout eternity - condemned by sin, living with the consequences of sin, and so forth.

        This allows for God to completely forgive but the person choosing to live in pain (pain not caused by God or his wrath).
        There truly is nothing and nowhere in the Bible that says people have any realistic choice, and it is egotistical to think that people have any real choice against the will of God.

        Choosing sin is to hurt our self.

        When God declares these words = COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, Revelations 18:4 - then that is not a request and no one can say or choose to not come out - it is a command.

        No one chose to be born, and no one really chooses to die, and no one gets to choose about being resurrected or of being saved.

        Our human choices are very limited.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
          There truly is nothing and nowhere in the Bible that says people have any realistic choice, and it is egotistical to think that people have any real choice against the will of God.

          Choosing sin is to hurt our self.

          When God declares these words = COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, Revelations 18:4 - then that is not a request and no one can say or choose to not come out - it is a command.

          No one chose to be born, and no one really chooses to die, and no one gets to choose about being resurrected or of being saved.

          Our human choices are very limited.
          There is no book of Revelations

          "Fire is catching. If we burn, you burn with us!"
          "I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and cause all kinds of trouble."
          Katniss Everdeen


          Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast.

          Comment


          • #6
            Reply:

            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
            Oh, another universalist.
            Yes - but I am far more radical than any of the others.

            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
            Well, what about the folk who don't want to be saved? Forcing them to be in God's presence would still be hell for them. Keep in mind that I believe hell is a state of shame and not a place of fire and torture.
            It does not matter whatever disobedient children want or do not want, as the Father rules over the children.

            When people meet our Maker then there will be great repentance and universal forgiveness.
            Romans 14:
            10 "... we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
            11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
            12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."

            The payment given by Christ will stand for every person to receive their SALVATION.

            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
            Keep in mind that I believe hell is a state of shame and not a place of fire and torture.
            In that case you are much farther ahead then others.

            There are different kinds of shame, as in healthy shame and toxic unhealthy shame, and our rightful shame will last forever, the other kind will not.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
              There truly is nothing and nowhere in the Bible that says people have any realistic choice, and it is egotistical to think that people have any real choice against the will of God.
              So you'd hold that people don't ever disobey God?

              Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
              When God declares these words = COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE, Revelations 18:4 - then that is not a request and no one can say or choose to not come out - it is a command.
              People disobey the 10 commandments all of the time.
              You've not illustrated how this command is any different.

              If you're going to be one of those nutjobs that reads conclusions into verses that aren't even addressing the topic then I'm out of here.
              I've no patience for the John Martin bug-eyed approach to discussing scripture.

              Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
              No one chose to be born, and no one really chooses to die, and no one gets to choose about being resurrected or of being saved.
              This is your conclusion.
              You've not demonstrated it.

              Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
              Our human choices are very limited.
              True.
              This doesn't address your larger point.
              Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

              Comment


              • #8
                The following verses, and their surrounding context destroy your claims. There are a few things we can learn about "hell" in these passages, 1) it's eternal, 2) the devil and his angels will be there, 3) those there will never have rest, day or night, and 4) it's better to be mutilated bodily than to end up there.

                Matthew 18:8 “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.

                Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

                Jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

                Matthew 5:29 If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

                Matthew 10:28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

                Matthew 23:33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

                2 Peter 2:3-5New American Standard Bible (NASB)

                3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

                4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a [a]preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

                Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

                There is much more that could be said, but these things alone are enough to refute what you've claimed so far.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
                  Romans 14:
                  10 "... we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
                  11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
                  12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God."
                  The 'we' that I've emphasized here is important.
                  The 'we', in a letter addressed to Roman Christians, would be other believers.
                  The context also makes this very clear.
                  Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Reply:

                    Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                    So you'd hold that people don't ever disobey God?
                    That is kind-of true, but to be more accurate then it is just that any human disobedience is minor and insignificant to the bigger picture.

                    A child disobeying their parent does not mean the child gets thrown out, because the parent uses the children's disobedience to teach the child, and punishment from a loving parent is just to teach and not to harm.

                    Every person is a child of God - and God will SAVE every one of His children.

                    Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                    People disobey the 10 commandments all of the time.
                    You've not illustrated how this command is any different.
                    Jesus paid the punishment in full.

                    And the commandments are there for people to choose life and to live better, instead of the commandments being misused for condemnation.

                    Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                    If you're going to be one of those nutjobs that reads conclusions into verses that aren't even addressing the topic then I'm out of here.
                    I've no patience for the John Martin bug-eyed approach to discussing scripture.
                    I do not know what that means,

                    but I welcome any nutjob or bug-eyed approach to talk with me.

                    Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                    The 'we' that I've emphasized here is important.
                    The 'we', in a letter addressed to Roman Christians, would be other believers.
                    The context also makes this very clear.
                    I understand the claim that your God is the God of only a few select people, but I am referring to the God of all humanity, without any person getting lost or left out.

                    The text has broader applications, and God is so much bigger than that.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Repentance:

                      Originally posted by thewriteranon View Post
                      There is no book of Revelations
                      Okay ~ I admit that I was wrong.

                      You caught me in this and I openly confess my error.

                      I hereby repent and make amends.

                      The correct spelling is without an "s" on the end as = Revelation.

                      Please forgive me for my failing?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Reply:

                        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                        The following verses, and their surrounding context destroy your claims. There are a few things we can learn about "hell" in these passages, 1) it's eternal, 2) the devil and his angels will be there, 3) those there will never have rest, day or night, and 4) it's better to be mutilated bodily than to end up there.

                        Matthew 18:8 “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.

                        Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

                        Jude 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

                        Matthew 5:29 If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

                        Matthew 10:28 Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

                        Matthew 23:33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?

                        2 Peter 2:3-5New American Standard Bible (NASB)

                        3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

                        4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a [a]preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

                        Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

                        There is much more that could be said, but these things alone are enough to refute what you've claimed so far.
                        All of those are misguided and misinterpretations.

                        The old Greek word for Hell was Hades from the old Greek religion, and Hades was the God of the underworld.

                        The Gospel is written in the old Greek language yes, but Jesus did not preach the Greek religion.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Story time! There once was a chowder of stray and feral cats that lived in the woods. They were cold in the winter and hot in the summer. They never had enough to eat and lived lives of fear. However, there was an owner of a cat sanctuary that took pity on them. He wanted to rescue the cats and give them a home. So, his son went out to coax them to the shelter. They could have just trapped all of the cats, but they didn't want to scare them any more than needed. So, they mainly stuck to gathering up the friendly strays that would come to them and any abandoned kittens. The feral cats were afraid that the humans wanted to kill or torture them, so they ran far away and would not let themselves be caught. Now the ones that were rescued lived happily ever after in a warm cozy place full of all the things a cat would love. The feral cats continued to live as they always had, not realizing the happiness that would be theirs if only they'd been rescued.

                          There are humans who are like those feral cats in that they would not want to be saved. For God to save them against their will would be like keeping a wild animal as a pet.
                          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
                            All of those are misguided and misinterpretations.
                            ah! the old "hand-wave away anything that proves me wrong" tactic. Very original.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              ah! the old "hand-wave away anything that proves me wrong" tactic. Very original.
                              Is this mickiel's twin? Sounds familiar...

                              And what about those who committed untypeable(I'd say unspeakable, but I'm typing and not speaking, so...) acts? Shouldn't there be justice for their victims? Why should they get to go to the same place as an innocent baby when they are unrepentant jerks?
                              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                              Comment

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