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The US & Britain in Prophesy:

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  • The US & Britain in Prophesy:

    Preaching Thread:

    The very best book about the elder (the Old) Testament is this one below:

    Read it online = The United States and Britain in Prophesy, by H.W. Armstrong

    Or you can buy that book for very little = Amazon.com, for $5.99

    No book is more enlightening about the Hebrew scriptures than that one.

    And of course it is also about us here and now in the 21st century.

    The Pulpit:

  • #2
    IIRC Armstrong was into that terrible British Isrealistism nonsense
    "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
    -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

    Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
    1 Corinthians 16:13

    "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
    -Ben Witherington III

    Comment


    • #3
      Reply:

      Originally posted by Raphael View Post
      IIRC Armstrong was into that terrible British Isrealistism nonsense
      Armstrong (published 1975) got and shortened that message from an earlier source book called = Judah Scepter and Joseph's Birthright published 1902.

      The old book is long and tedious, while the newer book is so much easier.

      I do often have trouble getting people to separate the message from the messenger, in that I do not preach Armstrong but I do preach that particular book.

      Too many people just attack that messenger while avoiding the message.

      Anyway - I am offering the topic for discussion if anyone wants to discuss the subject, but I do not want to discuss that person.

      This section of the forum called the Pulpit is said to preach - so this is my preaching and mine is far improved over the Armstrong preachings.

      Calling it as "British Israelism" leaves out the USA so I do not call it that way.

      Comment


      • #4
        I think claims that the ten lost tribes of Israel migrated up into Northwest Europe is a claim based on at best tenuous evidence that often tortures the facts to reach the conclusions desired and refuted by numerous lines of evidence including genetics

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Raphael View Post
          IIRC Armstrong was into that terrible British Isrealistism nonsense
          Both Herbert W. Armstrong and his son Garner Ted Armstrong although IIRC there was some sort of schism between them. And IIRC, Mary Baker Eddy was a supporter.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Reply:

            Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
            This section of the forum called the Pulpit is said to preach - so this is my preaching and mine is far improved over the Armstrong preachings.
            Okay - so I was mistaken about the "Pulpit" being for preaching, even though it says that on the front page, but then inside the Pulpit guidelines say quite differently - as I see that now.

            So this thread being moved here to "Unorthodox Theology" is fine by me.


            -------------------------

            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            I think claims that the ten lost tribes of Israel migrated up into Northwest Europe is a claim based on at best tenuous evidence that often tortures the facts to reach the conclusions desired and refuted by numerous lines of evidence including genetics
            It is based on the Bible, and yes a lot of people view the Bible as "tenuous evidence" but in this case - I do not.

            It is also based on well established human history and that is not "tenuous evidence".

            What I do not like is when people give no reasoning and no examples and no specifics as they just deny without any basis.

            As in saying it is not true because it is not true. = give no reasoning and no examples and no specifics as they just deny without any basis.
            Saying the evidence is not credible = giving no reasoning and no examples and no specifics as they just deny without any basis.
            They do not like the message because they do not like it = = giving no reasoning and no examples and no specifics as they just deny without any basis.
            And of course the ever ready option of attacking the messenger without addressing the message.

            I prefer honest discussion about the merits and the faith.

            Comment


            • #7
              Personally, I find the idea that the British are the descendants of Troy to be much more fascinating (it's also much more venerable).
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #8
                Reply:

                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                Personally, I find the idea that the British are the descendants of Troy to be much more fascinating (it's also much more venerable).
                If you do not want to discuss the topic then why are you posting here?

                You could start your own topic about "the British are the descendants of Troy" and no one is stopping you from doing that.
                Something that you consider as venerable!

                Unless you simply want to derail this topic.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by James Cusick View Post


                  It is based on the Bible, and yes a lot of people view the Bible as "tenuous evidence" but in this case - I do not.

                  It is also based on well established human history and that is not "tenuous evidence".
                  Easy to assert but very difficult to establish especially considering all of the contradictory evidence.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
                    If you do not want to discuss the topic then why are you posting here?
                    I wanted to express my opinion on the topic, so I did. It's not like the ten tribes were even lost to begin with.
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Reply:

                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Easy to assert but very difficult to establish especially considering all of the contradictory evidence.
                      Naysayers always pull out contradictory stuff when there is no real contradiction.

                      I would be happy to assert all kinds of evidence but any contradictory claim must first be made as otherwise I would have to reference that entire book.


                      -----------------------------

                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      It's not like the ten tribes were even lost to begin with.
                      A person would really need to read the book in order to really be informed, and that is asking a lot of you.

                      The message is not so much as the ten tribes being lost - but about them being found.

                      God never lost anyone.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Reply:

                        Originally posted by James Cusick View Post

                        The very best book about the elder (the Old) Testament is this one below:

                        Read it online = The United States and Britain in Prophesy, by H.W. Armstrong

                        Or you can buy that book for very little = Amazon.com, for $5.99

                        No book is more enlightening about the Hebrew scriptures than that one.

                        And of course it is also about us here and now in the 21st century.
                        The best argument for this topic that I can think up is that if we believe in a real Father-God that rules in the affairs of mankind (as I do) and that this real God is actively working in this world - then - then we must wonder about how the USA and Britain would fit into God's plan since these two nations have dominated the entire planet earth for over 300 years, and so if Bible prophesy failed to mention this huge significant reality of the US & Britain in prophesy then that would be a big piece of evidence that God was not in touch with our reality.

                        Of course the truth is shown in that message that the real God is actively involved in humanity and everything is going as planned by the Bible accounts.

                        This particular message in that book is in fact realistic proof of the real existence of God, because with this we can see it and know it instead of just blind belief.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Bad math. Britain really only became dominant since post Napoleonic times.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Reply:

                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Bad math. Britain really only became dominant since post Napoleonic times.
                            I just do not accept that "dominance" is the dating criteria, but if it were then yes it could arguably be 200 years and not 300.

                            The nation of England did not become Britain (or Great Britain) until the Scottish King James took over England in 1603. The same King James who authorized the KJV Bible. So we could use that 1603 date which would be 400 years. Otherwise in the 1700's (300 years) the American colonies were growing fast, and in the 1700's Britain was already in South Africa, in India, Australia, in Canada, and so the math can be debated, but the reality is still there to be seen.

                            The bigger point is that the Bible under the inspiration of God can hardly overlook such dominating superpowers of the 18th through the 21st century and still claim to be prophesy from God.

                            And as told in that book = Chapter 9 - "... that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days." Genesis 49:1

                            Prophesy for the "last days" - not the middle days or the before Christ days or the after Christ days but the LAST DAYS, and those are the key words.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
                              The best argument for this topic that I can think up is that if we believe in a real Father-God that rules in the affairs of mankind (as I do) and that this real God is actively working in this world - then - then we must wonder about how the USA and Britain would fit into God's plan since these two nations have dominated the entire planet earth for over 300 years, and so if Bible prophesy failed to mention this huge significant reality of the US & Britain in prophesy then that would be a big piece of evidence that God was not in touch with our reality.

                              Of course the truth is shown in that message that the real God is actively involved in humanity and everything is going as planned by the Bible accounts.

                              This particular message in that book is in fact realistic proof of the real existence of God, because with this we can see it and know it instead of just blind belief.
                              Respectfully (and assuming you're from either of those countries, pardon me if otherwise), you are not that important. If you see it that way, good for you I guess, but I'm not really buying the "God should have talked about US --pun intended--, else He isn't around" idea.

                              As a dude in college who sometimes comes here, I don't think I'll be able to read the book in the OP. If its thesis is presumably so important to know in 'our times', would you mind summarizing the important points and their basis for my/our consideration and discussion?

                              Thanks!

                              Bisto.
                              Last edited by Bisto; 04-03-2017, 07:39 PM.
                              We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore on Christ's behalf: 'Be reconciled to God!!'
                              - 2 Corinthians 5:20.
                              In deviantArt: ll-bisto-ll.deviantart.com
                              Christian art and more: Christians.deviantart.com

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