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Help me! I'm beginning to abandon the Trinity.

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  • Help me! I'm beginning to abandon the Trinity.

    Help me! Maybe you can. I'm changing from being a Trinitarian to Unitarian.

    After some 30 years of searching through study and prayer, I'm coming to the conclusion that (1) the God of the Bible is not three persons in one being, but rather one person one being and (2) Jesus is not Almighty God, but a sinless human being miraculously, virginally conceived of Mary. I'm still unsure about the Spirit.

  • #2
    I think pinning your mental well being on comprehending the nature of God is ridiculous.
    Even if you were to pick one or the other you wouldn't be any closer to 'getting it'.

    Look to Christ for your understanding of God and leave the rest to people who like to tire themselves with running in circles.
    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

    Comment


    • #3
      What have you studied?
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by RGJesus View Post
        Help me! Maybe you can. I'm changing from being a Trinitarian to Unitarian.

        After some 30 years of searching through study and prayer, I'm coming to the conclusion that (1) the God of the Bible is not three persons in one being, but rather one person one being and (2) Jesus is not Almighty God, but a sinless human being miraculously, virginally conceived of Mary. I'm still unsure about the Spirit.
        http://www.tektonics.org/jesusclaimshub.html

        And specifically:

        http://www.tektonics.org/uz/unitresp.php
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        Stephen R. Donaldson

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
          I think pinning your mental well being on comprehending the nature of God is ridiculous.
          Even if you were to pick one or the other you wouldn't be any closer to 'getting it'.

          Look to Christ for your understanding of God and leave the rest to people who like to tire themselves with running in circles.
          What do you mean "look to Christ"?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            What have you studied?
            I went to an evangelical seminary (to be unnamed) and finished a Master's Degree in Christian Apologetics. There I studied theology, philosophy, and basic biblical languages, to name a few.

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            • #7
              Thank you for the resources. I've read lots of articles from tektonics and from other sources. Tektonics produces lots good scholarly stuff on a variety of topics. But I remain unconvinced by the arguments presented for the Trinitarian view.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by RGJesus View Post
                I went to an evangelical seminary (to be unnamed) and finished a Master's Degree in Christian Apologetics. There I studied theology, philosophy, and basic biblical languages, to name a few.
                Ok. What have you looked at in regards to the topic at hand? Have you read the Church Fathers who argued for the deity of Christ (Athanasius) and the Holy Spirit (Basil, Ambrose)? More recently, have you read, e.g., Larry Hurtado's Why on Earth Did Jesus Become a God?
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by RGJesus View Post
                  Thank you for the resources. I've read lots of articles from tektonics and from other sources. Tektonics produces lots good scholarly stuff on a variety of topics. But I remain unconvinced by the arguments presented for the Trinitarian view.
                  What do you think the arguments for the Trinity are?
                  That's what
                  - She

                  Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                  - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                  I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                  Stephen R. Donaldson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RGJesus View Post
                    What do you mean "look to Christ"?
                    Christ shows us the nature of the Father independent of what you may believe about the Trinity.
                    That is all the instruction we need to live well - getting this one doctrine correct isn't a huge deal.

                    Christ is God for Dummies.

                    So it is okay to take the ole' Trinitarian doctrine out for a spin but don't get hung up on it.
                    Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      Ok. What have you looked at in regards to the topic at hand? Have you read the Church Fathers who argued for the deity of Christ (Athanasius) and the Holy Spirit (Basil, Ambrose)? More recently, have you read, e.g., Larry Hurtado's Why on Earth Did Jesus Become a God?
                      I didn't look at the Church Fathers' works, but I did look at the works of Robert M. Bowman's works, William Lane Craig, Norman Geisler, and other, and not so, prominent theologians/apologists. I've listened to the debates between James White (Alpha and Omega Ministries) and other Unitarians (like Greg Stafford former JW and Anthony Buzzard). The more I look both into the arguments for the Trinitarian view and the Unitarian view, the more I become convinced that the Unitarian view fits hands and gloves with the biblical data.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RGJesus View Post
                        I didn't look at the Church Fathers' works, but I did look at the works of Robert M. Bowman's works, William Lane Craig, Norman Geisler, and other, and not so, prominent theologians/apologists. I've listened to the debates between James White (Alpha and Omega Ministries) and other Unitarians (like Greg Stafford former JW and Anthony Buzzard). The more I look both into the arguments for the Trinitarian view and the Unitarian view, the more I become convinced that the Unitarian view fits hands and gloves with the biblical data.
                        The article I cited directly answered Buzzard and Stafford.
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                          What do you think the arguments for the Trinity are?
                          This discussion can go in many different directions. But let me point out one insuperable (logical) problem, as I see it, surrounding the God-man nature of Christ. He is said to be both fully God and fully man. When Jesus died on the cross, (1) did the God-man Jesus die? (2) Did the God Jesus die? (3) Did the man Jesus die?

                          Different Trinitarians answer these questions differently. I'd like to hear what you answer is.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RGJesus View Post
                            This discussion can go in many different directions. But let me point out one insuperable (logical) problem, as I see it, surrounding the God-man nature of Christ. He is said to be both fully God and fully man. When Jesus died on the cross, (1) did the God-man Jesus die? (2) Did the God Jesus die? (3) Did the man Jesus die?

                            Different Trinitarians answer these questions differently. I'd like to hear what you answer is.
                            The God-man Jesus died. Separating the two natures is Nestorianism.
                            That's what
                            - She

                            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                            Stephen R. Donaldson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                              The article I cited directly answered Buzzard and Stafford.
                              How would you argue for the Trinity?

                              Comment

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