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Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
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Look! It's a bird, no it's a plane, no it's a bicycle built for two!
This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the LDS - Mormons. This forum is generally for theists only, and is generaly not the area for debate between atheists and theists. Non-theists may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.
Due to the sensitive nature of the LDS Temple Ceremonies to our LDS posters, we do not allow posting exact text of the temple rituals, articles describing older versions of the ceremony, or links that provide the same information. However discussion of generalities of the ceremony are not off limits. If in doubt, PM the area mod or an Admin
Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Forum Rules: Here
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Joseph Smith: Prophet of the Restoration (Movie)
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It was a fluff piece for the faithful to cushion their testimonies with fables of Joseph's fictional squeaky clean image.
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Originally posted by seven7up View PostJoseph himself was threatened with destruction.
He even indicated that he knew in the future it would cause some people to not consider the faith as true. He had to follow through on God's command.
The guy was a cheat, a liar, and a sex pervert. Doing this under the guise of "God made me do it" is just pure jackassery. He's no different than David Koresh or Jim Jones or Warren Jeffers, except that he was just much more gifted at deception.
Again, I disagree. The LDS church does not gain converts based on "cleverness". True converts simply ask God.
-7up
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostMore than you would ever admit.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostNo, he "credited" God with his own self-centered "revelations", ...
Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post... then threatening his dear faithful wife with DESTRUCTION if she didn't go along with it.
[/QUOTE]The guy was a cheat, a liar, and a sex pervert. Doing this under the guise of "God made me do it" is just pure jackassery. He's no different than David Koresh or Jim Jones or Warren Jeffers, except that he was just much more gifted at deception.[/QUOTE]
Again, I disagree. The LDS church does not gain converts based on "cleverness". True converts simply ask God.
-7up
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Originally posted by seven7up View PostThere is some truth to this statement.
The young prophet read the scriptures which teach that if you lack wisdom, then you should ask God who will give an answer.
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Originally posted by The Unknown Comic View PostOne such doctrine is the idea of "forever marriage." In one humorous scene (I'll admin I laughed), Smith shared the idea that marriage was meant to last forever. This runs counter to Christ's words in Matthew 22:30.
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ernal-marriage
Originally posted by The Unknown Comic View PostAnother idea, presented multiple times throughout, is that opportunity for salvation will be presented somehow post-death to the deceased, which conflicts with Hebrews 9:27.
Please explain why you think that Hebrews 9:27 conflicts with LDS doctrine. LDS certainly believe that men die once, and then comes the judgement.
I guarantee that part of your issue stems from a misunderstanding of LDS doctrine.
You probably think that Mormons believe that there is some kind of "second chance". That is absolutely incorrect.
-7upLast edited by seven7up; 02-12-2015, 02:44 AM.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIf I remember correctly, this is the film that shows that Smith came up with his "everybody goes to heaven" doctrine* ...
Not "everybody" goes to heaven according to LDS doctrine. I think that is pretty clear. Furthermore, when LDS refer to "heaven" they are usually referring to specifically the Celestial kingdom.
Sorry if I am picking apart what was simply meant to be a snide comment. But based on this posters comment that eternal marriage "runs counter to Christ's words in Matthew 22:30," I suspect that Unknown Comic knows very little about LDS doctrine, and thus can be easily be misled into the typical straw men that you all usually present about Mormon beliefs.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIf I remember correctly, this is the film that shows that Smith came up with his "everybody goes to heaven" doctrine* because his brother died without becoming a Mormon or otherwise trusting Christ.
Right Cow Poke, because every Christian knows that children all just go to hell for eternity.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostHis doctrines were formed in reaction to his own life experiences and needs.
Joseph was faced with knowing that he needed forgiveness of sins, and he was faced with many competing and contradictory sects of Christianity, so he went to the Lord for forgiveness and guidance. He received an answer from God. Joseph and Oliver were studying scriptures which discussed baptism, so they went to the Lord asking about baptism and received an answer. The same for priesthood. The same for the question about what happens to children who die. Etc.
The ironic thing about your mockery is that when Christians don't know the answer to these questions, they just say they don't know or they make something up. Joseph did exactly what the scriptures say we should do.
Have you asked God about the answers to the tough questions?
And on that note, what do LDS missionaries tell people to do if they are investigating Mormonism? They say, "Don't listen to what other people say, or what I say. This is something that you need to ask God about."
Who out there is sincerely willing to do that?
-7upLast edited by seven7up; 02-12-2015, 03:01 AM.
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Yes, it was a propaganda piece - as much a work of fiction as the Book of Mormon itself. On the old Tweb, I believe I had a commentary that I typed while watching the whole thing.
If I remember correctly, this is the film that shows that Smith came up with his "everybody goes to heaven" doctrine* because his brother died without becoming a Mormon or otherwise trusting Christ. His doctrines were formed in reaction to his own life experiences and needs.
Or, maybe it was proxy baptism that resulted from that experience - I honestly don't remember.
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Joseph Smith: Prophet of the Restoration (Movie)
Stumbling around hulu, I found a movie called Joseph Smith: Prophet of the Restoration. Not having a lot to do, and willing to educate myself in my opponents' viewpoints and history, I settled in to watch. It was clear 15 minutes into the film that this was going to be a propaganda piece, and it surprised me not one whit when I checked that it was produced and distributed by the LDS Church. So I watched the rest of the movie with this in mind. This was a puff piece; no character flaws in Smith were shown, some of the scandals that came later were never mentioned, even Smith's polygamy was worth nary a mention. Smith glided through most of the movie as though he was on Xanax (one notable exception was his righteous indignation at a group of Missourian thugs [redundancy?] holding Smith and his fellows captive), and enemies of the LDS Church are painted as almost cartoonishly evil.
Since Smith is presented as a paragon and a martyr, the only thing the film offers up for criticism is doctrine. This the movie offers up with aplomb, blithely unaware (or maybe uncaring) that Mormon distinctives run counter to established parts of Christ's gospel the LDS ostensibly seeks to restore. One such doctrine is the idea of "forever marriage." In one humorous scene (I'll admin I laughed), Smith shared the idea that marriage was meant to last forever. This runs counter to Christ's words in Matthew 22:30. Another idea, presented multiple times throughout, is that opportunity for salvation will be presented somehow post-death to the deceased, which conflicts with Hebrews 9:27.
I can't find a whole heck of a lot to recommend this film. The parts of Smith's life I'd like to see portrayed with unflinching honesty are glossed over or omitted altogether, while the boldest parts of the story--the doctrines that make Mormons "Mormons"--are already well-known and far too obviously wrong in the light of the true Christ's teachings. It's hard to imagine who the target audience for the film is. Maybe the film appeals to the Mormon true believer, or maybe to the potential proselyte who isn't grounded very deeply in Scripture, but a well-rooted Christian can feel safe in watching this and will see it for what it is. ** (out of 5)Tags: None
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