Announcement

Collapse

LDS - Mormonism Guidelines

Theists only.

Look! It's a bird, no it's a plane, no it's a bicycle built for two!

This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the LDS - Mormons. This forum is generally for theists only, and is generaly not the area for debate between atheists and theists. Non-theists may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.

Due to the sensitive nature of the LDS Temple Ceremonies to our LDS posters, we do not allow posting exact text of the temple rituals, articles describing older versions of the ceremony, or links that provide the same information. However discussion of generalities of the ceremony are not off limits. If in doubt, PM the area mod or an Admin


Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

LDS Church: Mormon founder Joseph Smith wed 40 wives

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • carbon dioxide
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I'm trying to think of ANYWHERE ELSE in the Bible where an angel threatens to destroy an otherwise obedient follower. Smith was supposedly God's agent, and Emma was his faithful wife.
    I think the implication with the angel issue is that on the issue of polygamy, Joseph Smith was not being an obedient follower and Emma was not being a faithful wife as she did not want anything to do with the issue. In addition when one looks at the evidence, Joseph Smith did not really want to have anything to do with the practice. It was his Abrahamic test. Claims that Joseph Smith involved himself in polygamy because he was a womanizer, lusted after women, ect are all claims that really is not supported by the evidence. They make for good gossip and character attacks but it really does speak to the facts.

    Leave a comment:


  • carbon dioxide
    replied
    Originally posted by seven7up View Post
    I have known about the details of polygamy since I began investigating the church when I was in college. Heck, I knew Mormons had a history of polygamy long before then as well.

    -7up
    One article suggested that most Mormons have believed that Joseph Smith was only married to Emma. I always laugh at claims like this. What study can they cite to support it. Pretty much every member I have known is well aware about the practice of polygamy. How can they not when the Manifesto is in the LDS standard works? Of course the practice had to start somewhere. Of course Joseph Smith had more than one wife. Now members may differ on their knowledge of the subject as one would expect in any population. Some people know more on a subject than others but there is no shock here to the majority of members. I think the best number of wives he had was 35 but whether 35 or 40 is not that big of a difference.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by seven7up View Post
    I have known about the details of polygamy since I began investigating the church when I was in college. Heck, I knew Mormons had a history of polygamy long before then as well.

    -7up
    Unfortunately, you failed to realize its implications.

    Leave a comment:


  • seven7up
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Doesn't change the point of BTC's OP at all -- your Church is being forced to "fess up".

    Eventually, it's possibly YOU will even be led to the truth.
    I have known about the details of polygamy since I began investigating the church when I was in college. Heck, I knew Mormons had a history of polygamy long before then as well.

    -7up

    Leave a comment:


  • Kind Debater
    replied
    I've been reading the responses to this on a Mormon forum. There's at least one person who still insists that Smith wasn't a polygamist. Many seem to chalk up Smith's denials of polygamy to either his being human or to having to keep it secret, even from the church at large, due to persecution (particularly from people who left the church).

    Polygamy is a frequent topic there. It breaks my heart that 1) there are several LDS who are asking really good questions* about this and other topics, but they still believe and 2) there are people who have the right attitude, if you will, of being committed to God no matter what, but they use this to defend JS and polygamy.

    *Someone even pointed out that one of the things that bothers them is how many cult leaders institute polygamy within their cults.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    So an angel made him do it.
    I'm trying to think of ANYWHERE ELSE in the Bible where an angel threatens to destroy an otherwise obedient follower. Smith was supposedly God's agent, and Emma was his faithful wife.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    I noticed that according to this statement that Smith "told associates that an angel appeared to him three times between 1834 and 1842 and commanded him to proceed with plural marriage when he hesitated to move forward. During the third and final appearance, the angel came with a drawn sword, threatening Joseph with destruction unless he went forward and obeyed the commandment fully."

    So an angel made him do it.

    Whenever some cult leader wants to do something that everyone knows is wrong they always employ the same excuse: they were commanded to do so either by God or one of His messengers.
    Mormons sure have MEAN angels --- I wonder if that's the same one that would have destroyed Emma if she hadn't gone along with Smith's perversions.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    The scary thing is that many of their own members don't know all of this crazy stuff.
    Perhaps explaining this

    Source: Mormon Church Admits Founder Joseph Smith Had Up To 40 Wives


    ...

    Reiss says that approach can be harmful to some Mormons. "If you don't find out about those controversial things at church ... instead you find out about it in a late-night Google search when you're at home alone, scratching your head, thinking why in the world did no one ever tell me this, then everything else is called into question as well."

    Mormon church historian Elder Steven E. Snow agrees with that idea. He told the New York Times:

    " 'There is so much out there on the Internet that we felt we owed our members a safe place where they could go to get reliable, faith-promoting information that was true about some of these more difficult aspects of our history.

    " 'We need to be truthful, and we need to understand our history,' Elder Snow said. 'I believe our history is full of stories of faith and devotion and sacrifice, but these people weren't perfect.' "


    Source

    © Copyright Original Source

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by seven7up View Post
    Here is the official church statement about plural wives in the time when Joseph Smith and other early church members performed plural marriages.

    https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-ma...auvoo?lang=eng

    -7up
    I noticed that according to this statement that Smith "told associates that an angel appeared to him three times between 1834 and 1842 and commanded him to proceed with plural marriage when he hesitated to move forward. During the third and final appearance, the angel came with a drawn sword, threatening Joseph with destruction unless he went forward and obeyed the commandment fully."

    So an angel made him do it.

    Whenever some cult leader wants to do something that everyone knows is wrong they always employ the same excuse: they were commanded to do so either by God or one of His messengers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Here is Joseph's "Address of the Prophet—His Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo." on his marital situation:

    Source: https://byustudies.byu.edu/hc/hcpgs/hc.aspx


    What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.

    © Copyright Original Source



    So, he declared, one month before he died, that he only had one wife.
    He said he could only FIND one ---- the others ran away in repulsion!

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    The LDS apologists like to claim that God allowed and then disallowed plural marriage at different times.

    Yet their own scripture shows that during a time when the Hebrews practiced plural marriage (the OT) God said it was an abomination to him.

    Jacob 2: 24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
    26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
    27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
    28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

    for something that God simply allowed and disallowed depending on his purposes, using words like "whoredoms" and "abomination" seem pretty strong, especially since this was supposedly happening during a time when God supposedly allowed plural marriages.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill the Cat
    replied
    Originally posted by seven7up View Post
    Here is the official church statement about plural wives in the time when Joseph Smith and other early church members performed plural marriages.

    https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-ma...auvoo?lang=eng

    -7up
    Here is Joseph's "Address of the Prophet—His Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo." on his marital situation:

    Source: https://byustudies.byu.edu/hc/hcpgs/hc.aspx


    What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.

    © Copyright Original Source



    So, he declared, one month before he died, that he only had one wife.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by seven7up View Post
    Here is the official church statement about plural wives in the time when Joseph Smith and other early church members performed plural marriages.

    https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-ma...auvoo?lang=eng

    -7up

    Doesn't change the point of BTC's OP at all -- your Church is being forced to "fess up".

    Eventually, it's possibly YOU will even be led to the truth.

    Leave a comment:


  • seven7up
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Source: http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/11/living/mormon-founder-polygamy/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

    (CNN) -- The founder of the Mormon church, Joseph Smith, wed as many as 40 wives, including some who were already married and one as young as 14 years old, the church acknowledged in a surprising new essay.

    Smith's marital history had been the subject of frequent historical debate, but until recently Mormon leaders had taken pains to present its founding prophet as happily married to one woman. Now, the church says, "careful estimates put the number between 30 and 40."

    The church, officially called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, disavowed plural marriage in 1890 under pressure from the U.S. government, which had imprisoned polygamists and seized their assets.

    © Copyright Original Source


    Here is the official church statement about plural wives in the time when Joseph Smith and other early church members performed plural marriages.

    https://www.lds.org/topics/plural-ma...auvoo?lang=eng

    -7up

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    The scary thing is that many of their own members don't know all of this crazy stuff.

    Leave a comment:

Related Threads

Collapse

Topics Statistics Last Post
Started by Cow Poke, 11-19-2022, 10:08 AM
4 responses
33 views
2 likes
Last Post rogue06
by rogue06
 
Working...
X