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Would Seven7up Denounce Joseph Smith as a Mocker?

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  • Jedidiah
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Now, when I say that Joseph Smith was a conman and a false prophet, and the book of Mormon is fiction, 7up gets apoplectic and starts hissyfitting about pearls and swine and "mocking the sacred beliefs of others". But Smith was, IN FACT, assaulting the very SACRED beliefs of those around him.
    Every contemporary account, aside from those by insiders, points to the fact that Smith was a "conman and a false prophet" and worse.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by seven7up View Post
    Joseph Smith did not say those things.
    Did so.

    He is reporting what was told to him by a heavenly messenger, who quoted scripture.
    Nope. He made it up. And flat out lied about it. He couldn't even keep his lies straight as he told conflicting versions.

    Either way, there was no mocking tone about it. It was just stated as a matter of fact.

    -7up
    Well, in that case, all your goofy charges against me "mocking" are baseless, because I'm just stating fact.

    Your false prophet viciously attacked what others hold "sacred" -- that's the whole basis of your attack of my statements that Smith is a false prophet and the book of mormon is a work of fiction.

    So stop hiding behind that goofy canard.

    Leave a comment:


  • seven7up
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I mean, he says...

    (bolding mine)


    When Smith declared (supposedly from God, of course) that ALL religions are apostate, was he not mocking what others held sacred?

    (bolding mine)
    Source: Joseph Smith—History 1:9-20, Pearl of Great Price

    I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."

    He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, ..."[/B]

    © Copyright Original Source


    Joseph Smith did not say those things. He is reporting what was told to him by a heavenly messenger, who quoted scripture.

    Either way, there was no mocking tone about it. It was just stated as a matter of fact.

    -7up

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Kind Debater View Post
    In the quotes Bill provided, I think Young was criticizing Christians in a mocking manner. He didn't seem to be saying much about Christianity, more that Christians were ignorant.
    So "mocking" AND personal attacks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kind Debater
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Do you think Brigham Young was mocking Christianity?
    In the quotes Bill provided, I think Young was criticizing Christians in a mocking manner. He didn't seem to be saying much about Christianity, more that Christians were ignorant.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Kind Debater View Post
    CP, I know you're not attacking 7up. My point was there's a difference between condemning and mocking, and mocking can be on different levels and can be right or wrong.
    Do you think Brigham Young was mocking Christianity?

    Leave a comment:


  • Kind Debater
    replied
    CP, I know you're not attacking 7up. My point was there's a difference between condemning and mocking, and mocking can be on different levels and can be right or wrong.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    I have not been attacking 7up, like he has been making personal attacks against me.

    I have been pointing out the sheer hypocrisy of things like Joseph Smith telling people to abstain from alcohol, then putting a BAR in a hotel he owned, or "marrying" other men's wives and LYING about it, and coming up with the GOOFY "revelation" that God would destroy Smith's otherwise faithful wife for standing up to the "I wanna marry other women but still be married to you" nonsense.

    Smith and subsequent "prophets" have condemned the beliefs that I hold "sacred". Isn't this the point of 7up's hysteria? That I "mock" the "beliefs he holds sacred"?

    He can't have his cake and eat it too.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kind Debater
    replied
    There's outright condemnation of beliefs, which is what Smith did; there's pointing out the absurdity of beliefs (e.g. the stuff about manmade idols in Isaiah and how silly it is for someone to treat an inanimate object as a god) as part of demonstrating their falsehood; and then there's mocking beliefs in order to laugh at the beliefs and/or the people who hold them.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the disagreement between you guys and 7up comes down to deciding if something falls into the second or third category and whether or not those behaviors are right or wrong. E.g. Elijah's mocking of Baal (1 Kings 18) could arguably be in both the second and third categories. If he was ridiculing Baal and his priests in order to discourage the spectators from idol worship, was that right or wrong?

    As an example, here's what 7up himself has said about "traditional" Christianity:

    Originally posted by seven7up View Post
    In his article, "In Defense of Anthropomorphism", Cherbonnier does not mention "mystics" once. He does, however, mention Catholics and Protestants. Then later in the article says, "In short, theology as traditionally practiced is a prescription for schizophrenia."
    Originally posted by seven7up View Post
    You have to come up with silly things like "functional subordination" , whereby Jesus has to act like he is subordinate to the Father, but he really isn't because they are actually the same being/substance. All of that is nonsense and unBiblical.
    IMO, if 7up thinks what "traditional" Christians believe is silly nonsense, he can say that. I might be mildly offended, but certainly not enough to say anything about it, since a) it's clear to me he's not making fun of people and b) it makes sense to me that he would think it was silly nonsense, because after all he thinks it's false -- in other words, this is how it genuinely seems to him and he's just stating his opinion rather than going out of his way to make me or my beliefs look stupid. I would put this in category 2 and not have any problems with it.

    In other words, if 7up said, "KD, a lot of your beliefs are silly nonsense. You should put aside the nonsense and join the LDS church," I wouldn't be offended because the context indicates he's not calling me stupid. OTOH, if he said, "KD, a lot of your beliefs are silly nonsense, and it's evidence of your inferior intellectual abilities that you persist in believing in such nonsense," then I would be offended.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    "We may very properly say that the sectarian world do not know anything correctly, so far as pertains to salvation. Ask them where heaven is?- where they are going to when they die?-where Paradise is! -and there is not a priest in the world that can answer your questions. Ask them what kind of a being our Heavenly Father is, and they cannot tell you so much as Balaam's ass told him. They are more ignorant than children." (Brigham Young, JD 5:229).

    "The Christian world, I discovered, was like the captain and crew of a vessel on the ocean without a compass, and tossed to and fro whithersoever the wind listed to blow them. When the light came to me, I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness." (Brigham Young, JD 5:73).

    And more like it:

    http://vintage.aomin.org/Quotations.html
    What, what an unchristian pompous hiney-bo! The NERVE of him MOCKING the SACRED BELIEFS of others, which, OBVIOUSLY (according to 7up) is a sign he is NOT a Christ follower!

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill the Cat
    replied
    "We may very properly say that the sectarian world do not know anything correctly, so far as pertains to salvation. Ask them where heaven is?- where they are going to when they die?-where Paradise is! -and there is not a priest in the world that can answer your questions. Ask them what kind of a being our Heavenly Father is, and they cannot tell you so much as Balaam's ass told him. They are more ignorant than children." (Brigham Young, JD 5:229).

    "The Christian world, I discovered, was like the captain and crew of a vessel on the ocean without a compass, and tossed to and fro whithersoever the wind listed to blow them. When the light came to me, I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness." (Brigham Young, JD 5:73).

    And more like it:

    http://vintage.aomin.org/Quotations.html

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill the Cat
    replied
    You should see what BY said...

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Smith CONTINUES his unChristian and devilish attacks on the sacred beliefs of others:

    (bolding mine)
    Source: 1 Nephi 14:10


    And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Here, again, this unchristian MOCKER of what others hold sacred continues his mockery.

    Come on, 7up... condemn this MOCKERY of what others hold sacred!

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    started a topic Would Seven7up Denounce Joseph Smith as a Mocker?

    Would Seven7up Denounce Joseph Smith as a Mocker?

    I mean, he says...

    (bolding mine)
    Originally posted by seven7up View Post
    Pointing out that you do not live the teachings of Christ, (obviously mocking the sacred beliefs of others is an example), is not a personal attack.

    You and the others on this thread claim to follow Jesus, but you clearly do not.

    -7up
    When Smith declared (supposedly from God, of course) that ALL religions are apostate, was he not mocking what others held sacred?

    (bolding mine)
    Source: Joseph Smith—History 1:9-20, Pearl of Great Price

    I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."

    He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, "Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off." I then said to my mother, "I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true."

    © Copyright Original Source



    Now, when I say that Joseph Smith was a conman and a false prophet, and the book of Mormon is fiction, 7up gets apoplectic and starts hissyfitting about pearls and swine and "mocking the sacred beliefs of others". But Smith was, IN FACT, assaulting the very SACRED beliefs of those around him.

    Let the hypocrisy commence.....
    Last edited by Cow Poke; 07-11-2014, 12:02 PM.
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