Originally posted by Cow Poke
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Look! It's a bird, no it's a plane, no it's a bicycle built for two!
This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the LDS - Mormons. This forum is generally for theists only, and is generaly not the area for debate between atheists and theists. Non-theists may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.
Due to the sensitive nature of the LDS Temple Ceremonies to our LDS posters, we do not allow posting exact text of the temple rituals, articles describing older versions of the ceremony, or links that provide the same information. However discussion of generalities of the ceremony are not off limits. If in doubt, PM the area mod or an Admin
Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
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Would Seven7up Denounce Joseph Smith as a Mocker?
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Originally posted by seven7up View PostJoseph Smith did not say those things.
He is reporting what was told to him by a heavenly messenger, who quoted scripture.
Either way, there was no mocking tone about it. It was just stated as a matter of fact.
-7up
Your false prophet viciously attacked what others hold "sacred" -- that's the whole basis of your attack of my statements that Smith is a false prophet and the book of mormon is a work of fiction.
So stop hiding behind that goofy canard.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI mean, he says...
(bolding mine)
When Smith declared (supposedly from God, of course) that ALL religions are apostate, was he not mocking what others held sacred?
(bolding mine)
Joseph Smith did not say those things. He is reporting what was told to him by a heavenly messenger, who quoted scripture.
Either way, there was no mocking tone about it. It was just stated as a matter of fact.
-7up
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostDo you think Brigham Young was mocking Christianity?
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CP, I know you're not attacking 7up. My point was there's a difference between condemning and mocking, and mocking can be on different levels and can be right or wrong.
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I have not been attacking 7up, like he has been making personal attacks against me.
I have been pointing out the sheer hypocrisy of things like Joseph Smith telling people to abstain from alcohol, then putting a BAR in a hotel he owned, or "marrying" other men's wives and LYING about it, and coming up with the GOOFY "revelation" that God would destroy Smith's otherwise faithful wife for standing up to the "I wanna marry other women but still be married to you" nonsense.
Smith and subsequent "prophets" have condemned the beliefs that I hold "sacred". Isn't this the point of 7up's hysteria? That I "mock" the "beliefs he holds sacred"?
He can't have his cake and eat it too.
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There's outright condemnation of beliefs, which is what Smith did; there's pointing out the absurdity of beliefs (e.g. the stuff about manmade idols in Isaiah and how silly it is for someone to treat an inanimate object as a god) as part of demonstrating their falsehood; and then there's mocking beliefs in order to laugh at the beliefs and/or the people who hold them.
I wouldn't be surprised if the disagreement between you guys and 7up comes down to deciding if something falls into the second or third category and whether or not those behaviors are right or wrong. E.g. Elijah's mocking of Baal (1 Kings 18) could arguably be in both the second and third categories. If he was ridiculing Baal and his priests in order to discourage the spectators from idol worship, was that right or wrong?
As an example, here's what 7up himself has said about "traditional" Christianity:
Originally posted by seven7up View PostIn his article, "In Defense of Anthropomorphism", Cherbonnier does not mention "mystics" once. He does, however, mention Catholics and Protestants. Then later in the article says, "In short, theology as traditionally practiced is a prescription for schizophrenia."Originally posted by seven7up View PostYou have to come up with silly things like "functional subordination" , whereby Jesus has to act like he is subordinate to the Father, but he really isn't because they are actually the same being/substance. All of that is nonsense and unBiblical.
In other words, if 7up said, "KD, a lot of your beliefs are silly nonsense. You should put aside the nonsense and join the LDS church," I wouldn't be offended because the context indicates he's not calling me stupid. OTOH, if he said, "KD, a lot of your beliefs are silly nonsense, and it's evidence of your inferior intellectual abilities that you persist in believing in such nonsense," then I would be offended.
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post"We may very properly say that the sectarian world do not know anything correctly, so far as pertains to salvation. Ask them where heaven is?- where they are going to when they die?-where Paradise is! -and there is not a priest in the world that can answer your questions. Ask them what kind of a being our Heavenly Father is, and they cannot tell you so much as Balaam's ass told him. They are more ignorant than children." (Brigham Young, JD 5:229).
"The Christian world, I discovered, was like the captain and crew of a vessel on the ocean without a compass, and tossed to and fro whithersoever the wind listed to blow them. When the light came to me, I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness." (Brigham Young, JD 5:73).
And more like it:
http://vintage.aomin.org/Quotations.html
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"We may very properly say that the sectarian world do not know anything correctly, so far as pertains to salvation. Ask them where heaven is?- where they are going to when they die?-where Paradise is! -and there is not a priest in the world that can answer your questions. Ask them what kind of a being our Heavenly Father is, and they cannot tell you so much as Balaam's ass told him. They are more ignorant than children." (Brigham Young, JD 5:229).
"The Christian world, I discovered, was like the captain and crew of a vessel on the ocean without a compass, and tossed to and fro whithersoever the wind listed to blow them. When the light came to me, I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness." (Brigham Young, JD 5:73).
And more like it:
http://vintage.aomin.org/Quotations.html
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Smith CONTINUES his unChristian and devilish attacks on the sacred beliefs of others:
(bolding mine)
Here, again, this unchristian MOCKER of what others hold sacred continues his mockery.
Come on, 7up... condemn this MOCKERY of what others hold sacred!
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Would Seven7up Denounce Joseph Smith as a Mocker?
I mean, he says...
(bolding mine)
Originally posted by seven7up View PostPointing out that you do not live the teachings of Christ, (obviously mocking the sacred beliefs of others is an example), is not a personal attack.
You and the others on this thread claim to follow Jesus, but you clearly do not.
-7up
(bolding mine)
Now, when I say that Joseph Smith was a conman and a false prophet, and the book of Mormon is fiction, 7up gets apoplectic and starts hissyfitting about pearls and swine and "mocking the sacred beliefs of others". But Smith was, IN FACT, assaulting the very SACRED beliefs of those around him.
Let the hypocrisy commence.....Last edited by Cow Poke; 07-11-2014, 11:02 AM.
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