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Raca - One Word Could Mean the Fall of Mormonism

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  • Raca - One Word Could Mean the Fall of Mormonism

    I believe one word could destroy the Mormon Church if any Mormon is willing to think about they implications.

    That word is "Raca" found in second Nephi.

    I hate to have to spell it out to you but here is the problem and it is absolutely HUGE.

    This was a word that the KJV translators did not know how to translate. They "transliterated" it.

    Joseph is translating from the plates with his powers and is unable to translate the word and he also transliterates it.

    The odds that out of all the words in the book of mormon that were translated just this one word could not be translated to English would be absolutely astronomical.

    Also think about the odds that Joseph and the KJV translators happen to transliterate the exact same word.

    I am being honest here but this one word really shows that Joseph did not use supernatural powers to translate the B of M.

    The logical conclusion is Joseph just copied the KJV in this instance but even copying the KJV would not make sense since Raca is not a real word in English.


    Digital Inkling
    Last edited by DigitalInkling; 06-29-2014, 12:01 PM.

  • #2
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    • #3

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      • #4
        Originally posted by DigitalInkling View Post
        I believe one word could destroy the Mormon Church if any Mormon is willing to think about they implications.

        That word is "Raca" found in second Nephi.

        I hate to have to spell it out to you but here is the problem and it is absolutely HUGE.

        This was a word that the KJV translators did not know how to translate. They "transliterated" it.

        Joseph is translating from the plates with his powers and is unable to translate the word and he also transliterates it.

        The odds that out of all the words in the book of mormon that were translated just this one word could not be translated to English would be absolutely astronomical.

        Also think about the odds that Joseph and the KJV translators happen to transliterate the exact same word.

        I am being honest here but this one word really shows that Joseph did not use supernatural powers to translate the B of M.

        The logical conclusion is Joseph just copied the KJV in this instance but even copying the KJV would not make sense since Raca is not a real word in English.


        Digital Inkling
        This would a problem for Joseph Smith except for one important piece of information. Joseph Smith did not personally write the Book of Mormon text but verbally dictated it to scribes who where in the same room with him. They asserted quite clearly that Joseph Smith did not have a Bible or anything else with him. It would have been quite dangerous to Joseph to have a Bible with him as the scribes would have asked themselves why is he reading from the KJV. So either Joseph Smith memorized literally entire chapters of the the KJV and dictated it word for word correctly to a scribe or something else is going on here. Here is a test. Take a day to memorize several chapters of Isaiah. The get a friend and verbally dictate by memory only to your friend those words without making any mistakes and it must be done the first time through. No read backs, no start overs ect. Keep in mind that based on the time line of how long it took to translate the Book of Mormon, he needed to translate about 4000 words a day. So he would have to literally memorize several chapters of KJV Isaiah each day, get them word for word right and the next day do it again. I know I could not do that. It is one of the inspired reasons why I believe Joseph Smith used scribes who were naturally skeptical about some things. Their involvement in the translation process makes claims that Joseph Smith just copied from a KJV more difficult to prove.
        Last edited by carbon dioxide; 07-27-2014, 10:28 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by DigitalInkling View Post
          I believe one word could destroy the Mormon Church if any Mormon is willing to think about they implications.

          That word is "Raca" found in second Nephi.

          I hate to have to spell it out to you but here is the problem and it is absolutely HUGE.

          This was a word that the KJV translators did not know how to translate. They "transliterated" it.

          Joseph is translating from the plates with his powers and is unable to translate the word and he also transliterates it.

          The odds that out of all the words in the book of mormon that were translated just this one word could not be translated to English would be absolutely astronomical.

          Also think about the odds that Joseph and the KJV translators happen to transliterate the exact same word.

          I am being honest here but this one word really shows that Joseph did not use supernatural powers to translate the B of M.

          The logical conclusion is Joseph just copied the KJV in this instance but even copying the KJV would not make sense since Raca is not a real word in English.


          Digital Inkling
          That is hardly the only word transliterated in English translations of the Bible. Others are "baptism" and "amen."

          This seems rather minor to me.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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          • #6
            Originally posted by carbon dioxide View Post
            This would a problem for Joseph Smith except for one important piece of information. Joseph Smith did not personally write the Book of Mormon text but verbally dictated it to scribes who where in the same room with him. They asserted quite clearly that Joseph Smith did not have a Bible or anything else with him. It would have been quite dangerous to Joseph to have a Bible with him as the scribes would have asked themselves why is he reading from the KJV. So either Joseph Smith memorized literally entire chapters of the the KJV and dictated it word for word correctly to a scribe or something else is going on here. Here is a test. Take a day to memorize several chapters of Isaiah. The get a friend and verbally dictate by memory only to your friend those words without making any mistakes and it must be done the first time through. No read backs, no start overs ect. Keep in mind that based on the time line of how long it took to translate the Book of Mormon, he needed to translate about 4000 words a day. So he would have to literally memorize several chapters of KJV Isaiah each day, get them word for word right and the next day do it again. I know I could not do that. It is one of the inspired reasons why I believe Joseph Smith used scribes who were naturally skeptical about some things. Their involvement in the translation process makes claims that Joseph Smith just copied from a KJV more difficult to prove.
            How much of the BoM is identical to text in Isaiah? I suspect you're exaggerating just a little. And the claims of those involved would be more credible if there weren't mutually incompatible descriptions of the translation process extant. Lastly, it's not impossible from my POV that Joseph Smith had nefarious supernatural help.
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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            • #7
              Smith didn't have to memorize anything. That was what the hat was for. He hid pages from the bible and his notes in there and read them off word for word to his scribes.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by carbon dioxide View Post
                This would a problem for Joseph Smith except for one important piece of information. Joseph Smith did not personally write the Book of Mormon text but verbally dictated it to scribes who where in the same room with him.
                You weren't there. You don't really have any idea WHAT the translation process was. Did he use the alleged Urim and Thummim? Did he sit looking at the plates? Did he have his head in a hat? Was it the "seer stone"? Your Church can't come up with a solid answer on this very important aspect. Some of your "apostles" denounce very clearly that there was any "seer stone", yet some advocate that the "seer stone" was, in fact, the Urim and Thummim. Some of the accounts of the "translation process" have a curtain hanging between Smith and the "scribe". Others insist that the "scribes" could clearly see everything Smith was doing.

                Smith was a conman, gifted at trickery and deceit.
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  Lastly, it's not impossible from my POV that Joseph Smith had nefarious supernatural help.
                  I really don't want to believe that, but I have to admit it is a possibility.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by carbon dioxide View Post
                    This would a problem for Joseph Smith except for one important piece of information. Joseph Smith did not personally write the Book of Mormon text but verbally dictated it to scribes who where in the same room with him. They asserted quite clearly that Joseph Smith did not have a Bible or anything else with him. It would have been quite dangerous to Joseph to have a Bible with him as the scribes would have asked themselves why is he reading from the KJV. So either Joseph Smith memorized literally entire chapters of the the KJV and dictated it word for word correctly to a scribe or something else is going on here. Here is a test. Take a day to memorize several chapters of Isaiah. The get a friend and verbally dictate by memory only to your friend those words without making any mistakes and it must be done the first time through. No read backs, no start overs ect. Keep in mind that based on the time line of how long it took to translate the Book of Mormon, he needed to translate about 4000 words a day. So he would have to literally memorize several chapters of KJV Isaiah each day, get them word for word right and the next day do it again. I know I could not do that. It is one of the inspired reasons why I believe Joseph Smith used scribes who were naturally skeptical about some things. Their involvement in the translation process makes claims that Joseph Smith just copied from a KJV more difficult to prove.
                    The original manuscripts that Royal Skousen used disproves this theory. Several corrections to the text were made in situ, letters were transposed, and sometimes the wrong letter was used. And a majority of the wrong letters were mistakes that would have been made in reading an unfamiliar handwriting, not mis-hearing a syllable. The shifting stories of how the translation was done is one of the main reasons I believe that Joseph Smith and his co-conspirators made the whole thing up.
                    That's what
                    - She

                    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                    Stephen R. Donaldson

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by carbon dioxide View Post
                      This would a problem for Joseph Smith except for one important piece of information. Joseph Smith did not personally write the Book of Mormon text but verbally dictated it to scribes who where in the same room with him. They asserted quite clearly that Joseph Smith did not have a Bible or anything else with him. It would have been quite dangerous to Joseph to have a Bible with him as the scribes would have asked themselves why is he reading from the KJV. So either Joseph Smith memorized literally entire chapters of the the KJV and dictated it word for word correctly to a scribe or something else is going on here. Here is a test. Take a day to memorize several chapters of Isaiah. The get a friend and verbally dictate by memory only to your friend those words without making any mistakes and it must be done the first time through. No read backs, no start overs ect. Keep in mind that based on the time line of how long it took to translate the Book of Mormon, he needed to translate about 4000 words a day. So he would have to literally memorize several chapters of KJV Isaiah each day, get them word for word right and the next day do it again. I know I could not do that. It is one of the inspired reasons why I believe Joseph Smith used scribes who were naturally skeptical about some things. Their involvement in the translation process makes claims that Joseph Smith just copied from a KJV more difficult to prove.
                      It's obvious that Joe Smith, a conartist, copied from the King James Version, since he copied errors contained in that version, plus the italicized words, which were added into the text by the KJV translators, but put into italics to show they were informational only, not part of the original Greek or Hebrew texts.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Doctrine Matters View Post
                        It's obvious that Joe Smith, a conartist, copied from the King James Version, since he copied errors contained in that version, plus the italicized words, which were added into the text by the KJV translators, but put into italics to show they were informational only, not part of the original Greek or Hebrew texts.
                        It's also possible that Joseph Smith was getting supernatural help, just not from the source he thought it was.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          It's also possible that Joseph Smith was getting supernatural help, just not from the source he thought it was.
                          Smith was definitely under the influence of demons in my opinion. He shows every sign of infestation.

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