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Joseph Smith - The Nature of Revelation

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  • Joseph Smith - The Nature of Revelation

    I have read the pretty much all of Josephs writings including his Journal and I have this theory brewing in my mind like a hot cup of coffee (the devil's juice).

    I believe Joseph believed he got signals from God but they weren't always really clear signals. So Joseph would mull over them and try them out with his congregation. He would experiment in private with these revelations and then if they resonated or were "Sticky" he would start to canonize them.

    I think it would be fascinating to see if you could determine the motivation for each of the revelations and put them into categories.... like 1. libido, 2. power, etc...

    This would mean some of his earlier revelations really don't have to match his later ones because he was just working through the "truth" of the revelation. So for Joseph it was OK to contradict himself because he was just clearing up the signals he was getting.

    It's interesting because I think many christians actually function this way in their daily christian life. So the big difference was that joseph being the prophet or spokesperson for God in his generation was just documenting his journey and making his congregation follow his journey.

    I honestly have come to the conclusion that Joseph actually did believe what he was saying because these signals he was receiving were real to him even though they in my opinion were just thoughts in his head. Many of which perfectly reflect the melee of the time. My only struggle with this thought is that he would have had to deceive himself about the plates which would have been a tricky mental game for him.

    There is nothing to prove here... it really is just speculation but I do think there is an inkling of truth in this.
    Last edited by DigitalInkling; 06-26-2014, 10:49 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by DigitalInkling View Post
    My only struggle with this thought is that he would have had to deceive himself about the plates which would have been a tricky mental game for him.
    Not only for Joseph, but everyone else around him. The people around him saw him carrying and handling the heavy cargo, which appeared to be the right size, weight, sounds, etc.

    Well, and then there were the official witnesses, who all saw the plates uncovered as well, and they never denied their testimonies either.

    In fact, they were so adament about it, that they did things like insist on deathbed testimonies of the plates and the Book of Mormon, and writing the testimony on their tombstone, etc. because they felt that they would answer to God if they ever denied what they had witnessed.

    -7up

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    • #3
      Originally posted by seven7up View Post
      Not only for Joseph, but everyone else around him. The people around him saw him carrying and handling the heavy cargo, which appeared to be the right size, weight, sounds, etc.

      Well, and then there were the official witnesses, who all saw the plates uncovered as well, and they never denied their testimonies either.

      In fact, they were so adament about it, that they did things like insist on deathbed testimonies of the plates and the Book of Mormon, and writing the testimony on their tombstone, etc. because they felt that they would answer to God if they ever denied what they had witnessed.

      -7up
      So you think this throws off my theory either I have to believe Joseph was telling the truth or he purposefully deceived?

      Digits and Ink

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      • #4
        Originally posted by seven7up View Post
        Not only for Joseph, but everyone else around him. The people around him saw him carrying and handling the heavy cargo, which appeared to be the right size, weight, sounds, etc.
        Do you have any idea how much gold weighs?

        Source: MRM.org

        Gold weighs 1,204 pounds per cubic foot, so if we use the dimensions given by Smith we can correctly conclude that the plates were 1/6 of a cubit foot. In other words, if the plates were made of gold, they would have weighed 200 pounds. This becomes problematic since no one believes that it is physically possible to carry such a weight for any considerable distance, much less be able to run away from thieves bent on stealing the plates.

        © Copyright Original Source



        While this is not a "pro-Mormon" site, Mormon "apologists" try to explain this by "air space" between the plates, because they were allegedly handmade, and uneven. EVEN THEN, allowing 50% for "air space", they would have weighed at least 100 lbs, and not been easy to carry around.

        It's just GOOFY to believe Smith could handle that weight as depicted in Mormon lore.
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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        • #5
          Cow Poke,

          I don't think the weight of the plates should be a factor. I don't think anything in Mormonism says what quality the gold was. There are so many variations of gold. I am not really thinking this is a big deal.

          Digits.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by DigitalInkling View Post
            Cow Poke,

            I don't think the weight of the plates should be a factor. I don't think anything in Mormonism says what quality the gold was. There are so many variations of gold. I am not really thinking this is a big deal.

            Digits.
            It was a direct response to Seven's claim about Smith "carrying and handling the heavy cargo" -- it reminded me of Smith's Kirtland Bank scandal ("Kirtland Safety Society"), in which he allowed skeptical customers (his own followers) to "heft" the boxes that SUPPOSEDLY contained gold, but were probably boxes of rocks.
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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            • #7
              Originally posted by seven7up View Post
              Well, and then there were the official witnesses, who all saw the plates uncovered as well,
              You mean the eight witnesses, ALL OF WHOM were members of the Whitmer or Smith families?
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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