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Since MAN can become God, why not women?

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  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by seven7up View Post
    So, you did not mock what they held sacred? How unlike you.
    I oppose false teachings, and false prophets. Not ancient history and real teachings of the Bible.

    You must have faked it. You just paid them lip service, just like the god you pretend to serve.
    And, once again, lacking anything of substance, you go to personal attacks. Quite childish.

    Leave a comment:


  • seven7up
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Yeah, that brings up another nutty teaching of your Church:

    " . . . no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 289).

    Good Ol' Brigham Young!
    That just brings up another out of context quote that proves how much of a liar you are. Figures since you are serving the father of lies. Especially, since I already debunked it on this forum.

    -7up

    Leave a comment:


  • seven7up
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Yeah, I just got back from Israel, where I actually traveled WITH Orthodox Jews and we actually got along just great!
    So, you did not mock what they held sacred? How unlike you.

    You must have faked it. You just paid them lip service, just like the god you pretend to serve.

    Did you tell them what you REALLY believe? That they are all going to Hell for eternity for rejecting the Savior?

    -7up

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by seven7up View Post
    This goes back to our old discussion, about how Jesus specifically taught us to pray, "Pray to the Father, in my name".

    -7up
    Because Jesus knew there was no "Heavenly Mother". NOWHERE is that taught in the Bible.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by seven7up View Post
    Who will go to heaven? Who will go to hell?

    God will judge.
    Yeah, that brings up another nutty teaching of your Church:

    " . . . no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith," (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 289).

    Good Ol' Brigham Young!

    Leave a comment:


  • seven7up
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Well, let's let Seven throw Hinckley under the bus, too....

    Source: FairMormon.org



    As President Gordon B. Hinckley observed:

    Logic and reason would certainly suggest that if we have a Father in Heaven, we have a Mother in Heaven. That doctrine rests well with me. However, in light of the instruction we have received from the Lord Himself, I regard it as inappropriate for anyone in the Church to pray to our Mother in Heaven...The fact that we do not pray to our Mother in Heaven in no way belittles or denigrates her...none of us can add to or diminish the glory of her of whom we have no revealed knowledge.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Basically, he's saying that Mormons should believe there's a "Heavenly Mother" from "logic and reason", but then goes on to say it's inappropriate to talk to her.

    How "logical" and "reasonable" is it to teach children, "you can talk to your father, but NOT to your mother"? WHO MAKES THIS STUFF UP?!?!?!?!
    This goes back to our old discussion, about how Jesus specifically taught us to pray, "Pray to the Father, in my name".

    To follow Christ's specific instructions does not denigrate Christ in any way, nor would it "denigrate" our Heavenly Mother.

    This life is a blink of an eye compared to eternity. The knowledge we have here is nothing to what we will know and experience in eternity.

    -7up

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by seven7up View Post
    That is why I suspect you are the kind of person who pulls off the hats of Orthodox Jews, then you pull their hair and tell them how stupid they look with all of their "nonsense".
    Yeah, I just got back from Israel, where I actually traveled WITH Orthodox Jews and we actually got along just great! So, back to your goofy fantasy world. (you're really sounding unhinged)

    You are a despicable human being, and you don't even realize it.
    Your inability to defend your faith leads you to these ridiculous statements, and you're fooling nobody but yourself.

    It is the truth, and you are the swine.
    Yeah, I'll stay up all night worrying about what some crackpot on Tweb said.

    Leave a comment:


  • seven7up
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Yeah, just like your men and women have equal standing in your Church.
    The Biblical doctrine applies in the home and in the church.

    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    .... "eternal sealings" when Mormons get divorced, and nobody knows to whom the children of said cancelled "eternal sealings" are sealed.
    Who will go to heaven? Who will go to hell?

    God will judge.

    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I don't respect totally made up nonsense. It's neither sacred NOR holy.
    That is why I suspect you are the kind of person who pulls off the hats of Orthodox Jews, then you pull their hair and tell them how stupid they look with all of their "nonsense". You are a despicable human being, and you don't even realize it.

    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Yeah, lacking any real defense of your faith, bring on the goofy "pearls before swine" garbage.
    It is the truth, and you are the swine.

    Good luck with your miserable life.

    -7up

    Leave a comment:


  • seven7up
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Bill knows EXACTLY what he is talking about. It is you who wiggles and squirms to try to avoid what BY plainly said.
    You are going beyond what Brigham said.

    You have said that the creation of SPIRITUAL beings is a result of PHYSICAL action. That is not what Brigham Young said.

    I am not throwing Brigham under the bus. I am throwing your rampant assumptions under the bus.

    There exist fixed laws and regulations by which the elements are fashioned to fulfill their destiny in all the varied kingdoms and orders of creation, and this process of creation is from everlasting to everlasting. - Brigham Young

    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    In both quotes, BY said that there is no other method of creation, or "procreation", in heaven or on earth. This means the manner of spirits being begotten is the same as the manner of our flesh being begotten.
    No Bill, it does not mean that. It means that there are laws of existence that have always been there and always will be. There exist principles from eternity to eternity. For you to jump to the conclusions and interpret Brigham's words beyond to mean something beyond what he actually said is all to frequent with your posts on this forum.

    Footnote 9: President Brigham Young, General Conference address, 8 October 1876, location not specified. Brigham Young claimed that “God . . . had children upon the same principle that children are now begotten” (Scott G. Kenney, ed., Wilford Woodruff’s Journal: 1833–1898 Typescript [Midvale, UT: Signature Books, 1984]

    And what PRINCIPLE would that be Bill?

    According to you, the principle is "physical sexual intercourse".

    You are a fool.

    -7up

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by seven7up View Post
    No. "Heavenly Mother" is understood to be as Divine as God the Father. It is not that one is God and the other is not. They are, both together, God, so one cannot be "more sacred" than the other.
    Yeah, just like your men and women have equal standing in your Church.

    We don't talk about it often, because we don't have detailed information.
    Yeah, because it's a totally made up "doctrine" - like the cancellation of "eternal sealings" when Mormons get divorced, and nobody knows to whom the children of said cancelled "eternal sealings" are sealed.

    And, as I mentioned previously, this thread has sufficient evidence for the lack of respect for the sacred and holy. Here you have it.
    I don't respect totally made up nonsense. It's neither sacred NOR holy.

    Jesus Christ discussed what happens when pearls are trampled by swine. Here we see a perfect example by the LDS critics on this thread.


    -7up
    Yeah, lacking any real defense of your faith, bring on the goofy "pearls before swine" garbage.

    You're about as good an "apologist" as I am a ballerina.

    Leave a comment:


  • seven7up
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    They don't get sent to hell because they have not heard the gospel. They get sent to hell because they have sinned. Hearing the gospel, and believing in Jesus, is how we are saved from going to hell.

    So what you really don't believe that that Jesus will save those who believe in him.
    How do you expect them to believe in something they have never even heard of?

    -7up

    Leave a comment:


  • seven7up
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    "Heavenly Mother" is more "sacred" than GOD?
    No. "Heavenly Mother" is understood to be as Divine as God the Father. It is not that one is God and the other is not. They are, both together, God, so one cannot be "more sacred" than the other.

    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    .... you weenie out of it by saying "it's too sacred to talk about"
    We don't talk about it often, because we don't have detailed information.


    And, as I mentioned previously, this thread has sufficient evidence for the lack of respect for the sacred and holy. Here you have it.

    Jesus Christ discussed what happens when pearls are trampled by swine. Here we see a perfect example by the LDS critics on this thread.


    -7up

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Well, let's let Seven throw Hinckley under the bus, too....

    Source: FairMormon.org



    As President Gordon B. Hinckley observed:

    Logic and reason would certainly suggest that if we have a Father in Heaven, we have a Mother in Heaven. That doctrine rests well with me. However, in light of the instruction we have received from the Lord Himself, I regard it as inappropriate for anyone in the Church to pray to our Mother in Heaven...The fact that we do not pray to our Mother in Heaven in no way belittles or denigrates her...none of us can add to or diminish the glory of her of whom we have no revealed knowledge.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Basically, he's saying that Mormons should believe there's a "Heavenly Mother" from "logic and reason", but then goes on to say it's inappropriate to talk to her.

    How "logical" and "reasonable" is it to teach children, "you can talk to your father, but NOT to your mother"? WHO MAKES THIS STUFF UP?!?!?!?!

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    Prophet meet bus.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill the Cat
    replied
    Originally posted by seven7up View Post
    Wrong. As usual, Bill doesn't know what he is talking about. If you want to know what Mormons believe, you cannot trust Bill to provide you with accurate information.
    Bill knows EXACTLY what he is talking about. It is you who wiggles and squirms to try to avoid what BY plainly said.

    Bill quotes:

    Originally posted by Bill the Cat
    "[God] created man, as we create our children; for there is no other process of creation in heaven, on the earth, in the earth, or under the earth, or in all the eternities, that is, that were, or that ever will be."
    — Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 11:122.
    That is not understood by LDS to be referring to the creation of the spirit, but instead a theory in LDS theology concerning the procreation of Adam's body.
    Then the LDS are throwing Young under the bus, as Sparko said they would. BY immediately goes on to proclaim:

    Source: http://journalofdiscourses.com/11/19

    There exist fixed laws and regulations by which the elements are fashioned to fulfill their destiny in all the varied kingdoms and orders of creation, and this process of creation is from everlasting to everlasting

    © Copyright Original Source



    In both quotes, BY said that there is no other method of creation, or "procreation", in heaven or on earth. This means the manner of spirits being begotten is the same as the manner of our flesh being begotten.

    This is speculation, and it has been a competing theory that is contrary to those (including LDS) who believe in organic evolution of man kind.
    Brigham Young said, just before the part about creation of our offspring, "In all my public administration as a minister of truth, I have never yet been under the necessity of preaching, believing, or practicing doctrines that are not fully and clearly set forth in the Old and New Testaments, Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and Book of Mormon."
    http://journalofdiscourses.com/11/19

    He does not call these beliefs "theory". He calls them "doctrine"

    In summary, it goes like this:

    Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother consumed the fruit of Earth, and that fruit was a product of the "dust of the earth". By means of procreation, Adam was a literal child of God, but was immortal, having immortal parents.

    Some say, "We are the children of Adam and Eve." So we are, and they are the children of our Heavenly Father. We are all the children of Adam and Eve, and they are the offspring of him who dwells in the heavens (Brigham Young, Discourses of Brigham Young, pg. 222; JD 13:310.)

    The Apostle Paul says we are the "offspring of God" and Luke's genealogy in the New Testament reads like this: “... which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.”

    Here is where the theory is expanded upon by previous LDS leaders:

    “I believe that Adam’s physical body was the offspring of God, literally (Moses 6:33); that he was begotten as a baby with a physical body not subject to death, in a world without sin or blood; and that he grew to manhood in that condition then became mortal through his own actions. I believe that Adam’s physical body was begotten by our immortal celestial Father and an immortal celestial Mother, and thus not into a condition of mortality, a condition which would have precluded Jesus from being the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh" (D&C 93:11) - Robert J. Matthews (former Dean of Religion at BYU)

    “Our father Adam—that is our earthly father—the progenitor of the human race of man, stands at the head being ‘Michael the Archangel, the Ancient of Days,’ and…was not fashioned from earth like an adobe but begotten by his Father in Heaven.” —(Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:101-103.)

    (Brigham Young) taught that, literally, God is our Father; than men are of the same race--the race called humans; and that God, the Progenitor, or Creator, is the Father of the human race.... - Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation 1:101-103
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- -

    So, Bill uses the quote from Brigham to refer to the creation of spirits, however, it is discussing the procreation of the physical body of Adam.
    Brigham said there was no difference in creation on earth or in the heavens, nor was there ever another manner of creation. He says the two are the same method.

    Source: Brigham Young’s Teachings on Adam by Matthew B. Brown, Delivered at the 2009 FAIR Conference, Sandy, Utah.


    Footnote 9: President Brigham Young, General Conference address, 8 October 1876, location not specified. Brigham Young claimed that “God . . . had children upon the same principle that children are now begotten” (Scott G. Kenney, ed., Wilford Woodruff’s Journal: 1833–1898 Typescript [Midvale, UT: Signature Books, 1984]

    © Copyright Original Source



    So, yes. Bill knows EXACTLY what he is talking about.

    Leave a comment:

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