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  • #31
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post
    All you need to do is look at the millions of people who sit in churches where the bible isn't even opened and the "sermon" is nothing more than feel-good ear-tickling.
    We usually just have the scriptures of the day read to us, followed by a homily. In some fairness, my tradition developed well before the printing press, so very few in the congregation could be expected to have a copy on hand. On the other hand, I've yet to encounter "feel-good ear-tickling" in it.
    If these folk were into the word then these churches would be failing instead of growing.

    It's Laodicea, folks.
    I think you missed a negative in there, somewhere.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Well, there's that thing were Jesus said "go and tell".
      Sure. It IS possible to "go and tell" without getting into chapter & verse, however. As far as I can tell, most of the world was evangelized without that.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        We usually just have the scriptures of the day read to us, followed by a homily. In some fairness, my tradition developed well before the printing press, so very few in the congregation could be expected to have a copy on hand. On the other hand, I've yet to encounter "feel-good ear-tickling" in it.


        I think you missed a negative in there, somewhere.
        Um, nope.


        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          The Orthodox method of conversion is less "see verse x, y, and z...." than "come and see."
          Come and see for yourself that God is good first contact stuff. Establishing a person so that he can stay where he belongs takes some work by people who have been taken to that level, and those people develop to the point where they too can say "come and see for yourself that God is good." People who haven't been educated are left vulnerable to every false doctrine that tickles their ears*. People untrained in discipleship are getting nothing that is an improvement on what they can get elsewhere. And people of whom no demands are made don't demand anything of themselves. Outcomes are the kind of things that DesertBerean's link portrays.


          ETA

          I see that MossRose also mentions ear tickling.
          Last edited by tabibito; 06-06-2019, 02:48 PM.
          sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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          • #35
            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            Sure. It IS possible to "go and tell" without getting into chapter & verse, however.
            Of course. Not really understanding your point.

            As far as I can tell, most of the world was evangelized without that.
            Well, they didn't have "chapter and verse" prior to ~ AD 1550.

            Do you have a particular aversion to using, say, the "Roman Road" in evangelism?
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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            • #36
              Originally posted by tabibito View Post
              Come and see for yourself that God is good first contact stuff. Establishing a person so that he can stay where he belongs takes some work by people who have been taken to that level, and those people develop to the point where they too can say "come and see for yourself that God is good." People who haven't been educated are left vulnerable to every false doctrine that tickles their ears. People untrained in discipleship are getting nothing that is an improvement on what they can get elsewhere. And people of whom no demands are made don't demand anything of themselves. Outcomes are the kind of things that DesertBerean's link portrays.
              Well, catechism *is* education, done by someone who *has* been taken to that level.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                Of course. Not really understanding your point.



                Well, they didn't have "chapter and verse" prior to ~ AD 1550.

                Do you have a particular aversion to using, say, the "Roman Road" in evangelism?
                Not really - I just don't think it's the only way. Although in our post-biblical world, what some book says is less likely to be taken as somehow authoritative. We should be different from the secular culture around us, and that should be a draw for those looking for something better than the world.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  Well, catechism *is* education, done by someone who *has* been taken to that level.
                  In which case, the Eastern church would seem to note that "come and see" doesn't cut it for the long haul? Catechising would involve a certain amount of word, chapter, and verse would it not?

                  Though I'm less excited about word, chapter, and verse than about knowing what the Bible has to say - knowing WCV is sort of useful in establishing some sort of credibility.
                  sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by mossrose View Post




                    Um, nope.
                    Um,
                    Originally posted by mossy
                    If these folk were into the word then these churches would be failing instead of growing.
                    Don't you mean that if these folk were into the word, then these churches would be growing instead of failing?
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      Not really - I just don't think it's the only way.
                      Neither do I, and I never said that I did.

                      Although in our post-biblical world, what some book says is less likely to be taken as somehow authoritative. We should be different from the secular culture around us, and that should be a draw for those looking for something better than the world.
                      Which is why I always think the most important aspect of evangelism is the Holy Spirit's involvement.
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        Um,
                        Don't you mean that if these folk were into the word, then these churches would be growing instead of failing?
                        I think she means like the Joel Osteen type churches --- if "the people" were really "in the Word", Joel Osteen wouldn't be able to draw them with his ear tickling.
                        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                          In which case, the Eastern church would seem to note that "come and see" doesn't cut it for the long haul? Catechising would involve a certain amount of word, chapter, and verse would it not?
                          Yes, "come and see" is the initial draw. Chatechism involves more a synthesis of what word, chapter, and verse teach.
                          Though I'm less excited about word, chapter, and verse than about knowing what the Bible has to say - knowing WCV is sort of useful in establishing some sort of credibility.
                          WCV?
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Neither do I, and I never said that I did.
                            Not trying to imply that you did - it's just rather the preferred method in Evangelical circles, in my experience (except when working with Jews, when the "Jerusalem Road" is preferred).
                            Which is why I always think the most important aspect of evangelism is the Holy Spirit's involvement.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              I think she means like the Joel Osteen type churches --- if "the people" were really "in the Word", Joel Osteen wouldn't be able to draw them with his ear tickling.
                              Oh. Thought she was referring to mainline type churches, which are indeed tickling ears and failing.
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                Um,
                                Don't you mean that if these folk were into the word, then these churches would be growing instead of failing?
                                I think she meant that if the people were into the word, then they would see that what their liberal churches were teaching them is false and they would leave.

                                Comment

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