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  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Um,
    Don't you mean that if these folk were into the word, then these churches would be growing instead of failing?
    I think she means like the Joel Osteen type churches --- if "the people" were really "in the Word", Joel Osteen wouldn't be able to draw them with his ear tickling.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Not really - I just don't think it's the only way.
    Neither do I, and I never said that I did.

    Although in our post-biblical world, what some book says is less likely to be taken as somehow authoritative. We should be different from the secular culture around us, and that should be a draw for those looking for something better than the world.
    Which is why I always think the most important aspect of evangelism is the Holy Spirit's involvement.

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post




    Um, nope.
    Um,
    Originally posted by mossy
    If these folk were into the word then these churches would be failing instead of growing.
    Don't you mean that if these folk were into the word, then these churches would be growing instead of failing?

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Well, catechism *is* education, done by someone who *has* been taken to that level.
    In which case, the Eastern church would seem to note that "come and see" doesn't cut it for the long haul? Catechising would involve a certain amount of word, chapter, and verse would it not?

    Though I'm less excited about word, chapter, and verse than about knowing what the Bible has to say - knowing WCV is sort of useful in establishing some sort of credibility.

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Of course. Not really understanding your point.



    Well, they didn't have "chapter and verse" prior to ~ AD 1550.

    Do you have a particular aversion to using, say, the "Roman Road" in evangelism?
    Not really - I just don't think it's the only way. Although in our post-biblical world, what some book says is less likely to be taken as somehow authoritative. We should be different from the secular culture around us, and that should be a draw for those looking for something better than the world.

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
    Come and see for yourself that God is good first contact stuff. Establishing a person so that he can stay where he belongs takes some work by people who have been taken to that level, and those people develop to the point where they too can say "come and see for yourself that God is good." People who haven't been educated are left vulnerable to every false doctrine that tickles their ears. People untrained in discipleship are getting nothing that is an improvement on what they can get elsewhere. And people of whom no demands are made don't demand anything of themselves. Outcomes are the kind of things that DesertBerean's link portrays.
    Well, catechism *is* education, done by someone who *has* been taken to that level.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Sure. It IS possible to "go and tell" without getting into chapter & verse, however.
    Of course. Not really understanding your point.

    As far as I can tell, most of the world was evangelized without that.
    Well, they didn't have "chapter and verse" prior to ~ AD 1550.

    Do you have a particular aversion to using, say, the "Roman Road" in evangelism?

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    The Orthodox method of conversion is less "see verse x, y, and z...." than "come and see."
    Come and see for yourself that God is good first contact stuff. Establishing a person so that he can stay where he belongs takes some work by people who have been taken to that level, and those people develop to the point where they too can say "come and see for yourself that God is good." People who haven't been educated are left vulnerable to every false doctrine that tickles their ears*. People untrained in discipleship are getting nothing that is an improvement on what they can get elsewhere. And people of whom no demands are made don't demand anything of themselves. Outcomes are the kind of things that DesertBerean's link portrays.


    ETA

    I see that MossRose also mentions ear tickling.
    Last edited by tabibito; 06-06-2019, 02:48 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • mossrose
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    We usually just have the scriptures of the day read to us, followed by a homily. In some fairness, my tradition developed well before the printing press, so very few in the congregation could be expected to have a copy on hand. On the other hand, I've yet to encounter "feel-good ear-tickling" in it.


    I think you missed a negative in there, somewhere.
    Um, nope.

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Well, there's that thing were Jesus said "go and tell".
    Sure. It IS possible to "go and tell" without getting into chapter & verse, however. As far as I can tell, most of the world was evangelized without that.

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post
    All you need to do is look at the millions of people who sit in churches where the bible isn't even opened and the "sermon" is nothing more than feel-good ear-tickling.
    We usually just have the scriptures of the day read to us, followed by a homily. In some fairness, my tradition developed well before the printing press, so very few in the congregation could be expected to have a copy on hand. On the other hand, I've yet to encounter "feel-good ear-tickling" in it.
    If these folk were into the word then these churches would be failing instead of growing.

    It's Laodicea, folks.
    I think you missed a negative in there, somewhere.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    The Orthodox method of conversion is less "see verse x, y, and z...." than "come and see."
    Well, there's that thing were Jesus said "go and tell".

    Leave a comment:


  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Well, you may have a point. While ANY CHILD raised in a Baptist home could be expected to quote John 3:16, in my teenage rebellion, I attended a Catholic Youth Organization retreat where I was astounded that they didn't seem to know any scripture at all. But then, they weren't "missionaries" sent out to win converts.
    The Orthodox method of conversion is less "see verse x, y, and z...." than "come and see."

    Leave a comment:


  • mossrose
    replied
    All you need to do is look at the millions of people who sit in churches where the bible isn't even opened and the "sermon" is nothing more than feel-good ear-tickling.

    If these folk were into the word then these churches would be failing instead of growing.

    It's Laodicea, folks.

    Leave a comment:


  • DesertBerean
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
    4% seems a bit high to me. Do you have a citation available perchance?
    I'll have to dig out the Barna book in my office. Also remember this is U. S. only.

    But to emphasize CP's point, here's an article about our illiteracy:

    https://albertmohler.com/2016/01/20/...our-problem-4/

    Leave a comment:

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