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Brigham Young, get thee back under that bus!

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  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    You mean this:
    "Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken -- He is our Father, and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later." (Journal of Discourses, vol1, p50)

    FWIU, today nearly all Mormons reject this teaching of Young's
    I just noticed that Brigham Young was also teaching that Adam had multiple wives (see bolded part).

    He says the same thing further on in the June 8, 1873 edition of the Deseret News that I quoted from in post 17 but left off that part:
    How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter‑day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me ‑ namely that Adam is our father and God ‑ I do not know, I do not inquire, I care nothing about it. Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him, and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve, because she was the first woman upon the earth.



    More interesting is that he taught that Adam came from another planet -- an alien from outer space if you will
    Though we have it in history that our father Adam was made of the dust of this earth, and that he knew nothing about his God previous to being made here, yet it is not so; and when we learn the truth we shall see and understand that he helped to make this world, and was the chief manager in that operation. He was the person who brought the animals and the seeds from other planets to this world, and brought a wife with him and stayed here. You may read and believe what you please as to what is found written in the Bible. Adam was made from the dust of an earth, but not from the dust of this earth. He was made as you and I are made, and no person was ever made upon any other principle. (Journal of Discourses, v3, p319)

    Here let me state to all philosophers of every class upon the earth, when you tell me that father Adam was made as we make adobes from the earth, you tell me what I deem an idle tale. When you tell me that the beasts of the field were produced in that manner, you are speaking idle words devoid of meaning. There is no such thing in all the eternities where the Gods dwell. Mankind are here because they are the offspring of parents who were first brought here from another planet, and power was given them to propagate their species, and they were commanded to multiply and replenish the earth. (Journal of Discourses v7, p285)

    You believe Adam was made of the dust of this earth. This I do not believe, though it is supposed that it is so written in the Bible; but it is not to my understanding. You can write that information to the States, if you please ‑ that I have publicly declared that I do not believe that portion of the Bible as the Christian world do. I never did, and I never want to. What is the reason I do not? Because I have come to understanding, and banished from my mind all the baby stories my mother taught me when I was a child. (Journal of Discourses, v2, p6)

    This teaching can see being repeated by many other early Mormon leaders

    Wilford Woodruff (mentioned in post 17) wrote in his journal on May 6, 1855 that
    Adam & Eve had lived upon another Earth, were immortal when they came here.

    Interestingly he goes on to say right after this that Adam "agreed to fall when he came here, & he fell that man might be & the opposite principle to good"

    In another entry dated September 17, 1854 Woodruff wrote
    Some of his [Orson Pratt's] doctrines as contained in the Seer were being discussed. Brother Pratt also thought that Adam was made of the dust of the earth. Could not believe that Adam was our God or the Father of Jesus Christ. President Young said that He came from another world & made this. Brought Eve with him, partook of the fruits of the earth, begat children & they were earthly & had mortal bodies & if we were faithful, we should become Gods as He was.

    Leonard John Nuttall (a a member of the Council of Fifty and the private secretary for LDS presidents John Taylor, and Wilford Woodruff) wrote in his journal February 7, 1877
    We have heard a great deal about Adam and Eve ‑‑‑ how they were formed and some think he was made like an adobe and the Lord breathed into him the breath of life. For we read, "From dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." Well, he was made of the dust of the earth, but not of this earth. He was made just the same way you and I are made but on another earth. Adam was an immortal being, when he came on this earth. He had lived on an earth similar to ours.

    Abraham Hoagland Cannon (a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles) wrote in his journal on June 23, 1889 that his father George Quayle Cannon (an early member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and who served as First Counselor under four successive presidents of the church: Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff and Lorenzo Snow) said that
    Adam, though made of dust, was made of the dust of another planet than this

    Heber C. Kimball (also mentioned in post 17) said the following at Willow Creek on June 12, 1860
    When he (Adam) planted the garden, he planted it with seeds he brought with him: and he also brought the animals from the earth he lived upon, where his Father dwelt. (Journal of Discourses v8, p244)

    Samuel W Richards (president of the LDS Church's British Mission and editor of the Millennial Star) wrote in his journal on March 25, 1855
    B. Young spoke to the meeting in a very interesting manner... Adam and Eve were made of the dust of the Earth from which they came, they brought their bodies with them. They had lived, died and been resurrected before they came here and they came with immortal bodies, and had to partake of the fruits of this Earth in order to bring forth mortal bodies, or natural bodies, that their seed might be of the dust of this Earth as they were of the dust of the earth from which they came.

    Eliza Roxcy Snow (wife of LDS founder Joseph Smith and later Brigham Young and second general president of the LDS Church's Relief Society) is quoted in Edward William Tullidge's "The Women of Mormonism" (published 1877) as saying
    The grand patriarchal economy, with Adam, as a resurrected being, who brought his wife Eve from another world has been very finely elaborated by Brigham from the patriarchal genesis which Joseph conceived.

    Brigham Henry Roberts (one of the seven presidents of the First Council of the Seventy and who published a six-volume history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) wrote in an article printed in The Contributor (of which he was the editor) in 1899 that
    We are informed that the Lord God made every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb before it grew on our planet. As vegetation was created or made to grow upon some older earth, and the seeds thereof or the plants themselves were brought to our earth and made to grow, so likewise man and his helpmate were brought from some other world to our own, to people it with their children ... We are all “formed” of the dust of the ground, though instead of being moulded as a brick we are brought forth by the natural laws of procreation; so also was Adam and his wife in some older world.

    Joseph Fielding Smith (the tenth president of the LDS Church, son of Joseph F. Smith, who was their sixth president and grandson of Hyrum Smith, the brother of the founder of the LDS Church Joseph Smith) wrote in his book "Man, His Origin and Destiny" (published in 1954) that
    Does it not appear to you that it is a foolish and ridiculous notion that when God created this earth he had to begin with a speck of protoplasm, and take millions of years, if not billions, to bring conditions to pass by which his sons and daughters might obtain bodies made in his image? Why not the shorter route and transplant them from another earth as we are taught in the scriptures?

    He taught this elsewhere as well
    I tell you, life did not commence upon this earth spontaneously. Its origin was not here. Life existed long before our solar system was called into being. The fact is, there never was a time when man-made in the image of God, male and female-did not exist. The Lord revealed to Joseph Smith the truth that man was also in the beginning with God... The Lord has given us the information regarding his creations, and now he has made many earths, for there never was a beginning, never was a time when man did not exist somewhere in the universe, and when the time came for this earth to be peopled, the Lord, our God, transplanted upon it from some other earth, the life which is found here. (Doctrines of Salvation, v1, p139‑140)





    Was this, according to the LDS, what Adam might have looked like?
    Last edited by rogue06; 05-03-2014, 06:46 PM.

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  • Cow Poke
    replied
    I was unaware of this one:

    "Suppose you found your brother in bed with your wife, and put a javelin through both of them, you would be justified, and they would atone for their sins, and be received into the kingdom of God. I would at once do so in such a case; under such circumstances. I have no wife whom I love so well that I would not put a javelin through her heart, and I would do it with clean hands." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247)

    (I wonder if his wife(wives) knew this)

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill the Cat
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Young had some other interesting things to say regarding Adam. For instance, in the Minutes of the School of the Prophets (which contains minutes of the weekly meetings of the Provo, Utah School of the Prophets, from April 15, 1868 to June 18, 1869), we find this from June 8, 1868 and attributed to Young:
    Adam is our God ‑ the God we worship ‑ that most of the people believe this ‑ some believe it because the President says so ‑ others because they can find testimony in the Book of Mormon and the Book of Doctrine and Covenants.

    In the June 8, 1873 edition of the Deseret News Young is quoted as saying the following:
    How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter‑day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me ‑ namely that Adam is our father and God ‑ I do not know, I do not inquire, I care nothing about it.

    Similarly the journals of several prominent Mormons contain explicit references to Young teaching that Adam was God.

    Wilford Woodruff, a member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles, a member of the Anointed Quorum and Council of Fifty and the fourth president of LDS Church has a couple of pertinent entries in his journal[1]. The first is dated April 9 1852 and contains a quote from Young:
    Our Father begot all the spirits that were before any tabernacle was made. When our Father came into the Garden He came with his Celestial body & brought one of his wives with him and ate of the fruit of the Garden until He could beget a Tabernacle. And Adam is Michael God and all the God that we have anything to do with.

    The next is dated February 19, 1854 and says:
    He (B.Y.) said that our God was Father Adam. He was the Father of the Savior Jesus Christ---Our God was no more or less than ADAM, Michael the Archangel.

    Hosea Stout, who was Joseph Smith's bodyguard, President of the eleventh Quorum of Seventies and a member of the Council of Fifty, wrote in his journal in an entry dated Friday, April 9th, 1852:
    Another meeting this evening. President B. Young taught that Adam was the father of Jesus and the only God to us. That he came to this world in a resurrected body

    Joseph Lee Robinson, a friend of Joseph Smith and like Stout an early Mormon pioneer who settled in Utah in 1848, wrote in his journal on October 6, 1854:
    Attended conference. A very interesting conference; for at this meeting President Brigham Young said thus: That Adam and Eve were the names of the first man and woman of every earth that was ever organized. And that Adam and Eve were the natural Father and Mother of every spirit that comes to this planet or that receives tabernacles on this planet. Consequently we are brothers and sisters. And that Adam was God our Eternal Father.






    1. There is another entry dated April 10, 1852 and contains a quote from Heber C. Kimball, one of the original twelve apostles and first counselor to Brigham Young in the First Presidency of LDS church:
    Some have said that I was very presumptuous to say that Brother Brigham was my God and Savior. Brother Joseph was his God. The one that gave Joseph the keys of the Kingdom was his God, which was Peter. Jesus Christ was his God and the God and Father of Jesus Christ was Adam.
    I have a substantial document with several quotes and some have multiple attestations. The second and third are as follows:

    2. Salt Lake School of the Prophet, Minutes, 1883, pp. 69-70; CHO CR/390/1/Box 1, Oct 11, 1883. The following account took place on 7 May 1834 at New Portage, Ohio which is about 50 miles from Kirtland, Ohio. See where the Prophet went here in HC 2:64 & Life of Joseph Smith the Prophet, by G. Q. Cannon, p. 173. See also quotation #3.
    Once after returning from a mission, he [Zebedee Coltrin] met Bro. Joseph in Kirtland, who asked him if he did not wish to go with him to a conference at New Portage. The party consisted of Prests. Joseph Smith, Sidney Rigdon, Oliver Cowdery and myself. Next morning at New Portage, he noticed that Joseph seemed to have a far off look in his eyes, or was looking at a distance, and presently he, Joseph, stepped between Brothers Cowdery, and Coltrin and taking them by the arm, said, "lets take a walk." They went to a place where there was some beautiful grass, and grapevines and swampbeech interlaced. President Joseph Smith then said, "Let us pray." They all three prayed in turn--Joseph, Oliver and Zebedee. Bro. Joseph then said, "now brethren we will see some visions." Joseph lay down on the ground on his back and stretched out his arms and the two brethren lay on them. The heavens gradually opened, and they saw a golden throne, on a circular foundation, something like a light house, and on the throne were two aged personages, having white hair, and clothed in white garments. They were the two most beautiful and perfect specimens of mankind he ever saw. Joseph said, They are our first parents, Adam and Eve. Adam was a large broad shouldered man, and Eve as a woman, was as large in proportion.

    3. Journal of Abraham H. Cannon, Vol 13:89; August 25th, 1890; Richfield, Utah. The following account took place on 7 May 1834 at New Portage, Ohio which is about 50 miles from Kirtland, Ohio. See where the Prophet went here in HC 2:64 & Life of Joseph Smith the Prophet, G. Q. Cannon, p. 173. See also quotation #2.
    Pres. Peterson told of an incident which he often heard Zebedee Coltrin relate. One day the Prophet Joseph asked him and Sidney Rigdon to accompany him into the woods to pray. When they had reached a secluded spot, Joseph laid down on his back and stretched out his arms. He told the brethren to lie one on each arm, and then shut their eyes. After they had prayed he told them to open their eyes. They did so and saw a brilliant light surrounding a pedestal which seemed to rest on the earth. They closed their eyes and again prayed. They then saw, on opening them, the Father seated upon a throne; they prayed again and on looking saw the Mother also; after praying and looking the fourth time they saw the Savior added to the group. He had brown, rather long, wavy hair and appeared quite young.

    So, Brigham was not the only one who taught it. Joseph taught it as well toward the end of his life.
    Last edited by Bill the Cat; 05-03-2014, 12:24 PM.

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  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    You mean this:
    "Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken -- He is our Father, and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later." (Journal of Discourses, vol1, p50)

    FWIU, today nearly all Mormons reject this teaching of Young's
    Young had some other interesting things to say regarding Adam. For instance, in the Minutes of the School of the Prophets (which contains minutes of the weekly meetings of the Provo, Utah School of the Prophets, from April 15, 1868 to June 18, 1869), we find this from June 8, 1868 and attributed to Young:
    Adam is our God ‑ the God we worship ‑ that most of the people believe this ‑ some believe it because the President says so ‑ others because they can find testimony in the Book of Mormon and the Book of Doctrine and Covenants.

    In the June 8, 1873 edition of the Deseret News Young is quoted as saying the following:
    How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter‑day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me ‑ namely that Adam is our father and God ‑ I do not know, I do not inquire, I care nothing about it.

    Similarly the journals of several prominent Mormons contain explicit references to Young teaching that Adam was God.

    Wilford Woodruff, a member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles, a member of the Anointed Quorum and Council of Fifty and the fourth president of LDS Church has a couple of pertinent entries in his journal[1]. The first is dated April 9 1852 and contains a quote from Young:
    Our Father begot all the spirits that were before any tabernacle was made. When our Father came into the Garden He came with his Celestial body & brought one of his wives with him and ate of the fruit of the Garden until He could beget a Tabernacle. And Adam is Michael God and all the God that we have anything to do with.

    The next is dated February 19, 1854 and says:
    He (B.Y.) said that our God was Father Adam. He was the Father of the Savior Jesus Christ---Our God was no more or less than ADAM, Michael the Archangel.

    Hosea Stout, who was Joseph Smith's bodyguard, President of the eleventh Quorum of Seventies and a member of the Council of Fifty, wrote in his journal in an entry dated Friday, April 9th, 1852:
    Another meeting this evening. President B. Young taught that Adam was the father of Jesus and the only God to us. That he came to this world in a resurrected body

    Joseph Lee Robinson, a friend of Joseph Smith and like Stout an early Mormon pioneer who settled in Utah in 1848, wrote in his journal on October 6, 1854:
    Attended conference. A very interesting conference; for at this meeting President Brigham Young said thus: That Adam and Eve were the names of the first man and woman of every earth that was ever organized. And that Adam and Eve were the natural Father and Mother of every spirit that comes to this planet or that receives tabernacles on this planet. Consequently we are brothers and sisters. And that Adam was God our Eternal Father.






    1. There is another entry dated April 10, 1852 and contains a quote from Heber C. Kimball, one of the original twelve apostles and first counselor to Brigham Young in the First Presidency of LDS church:
    Some have said that I was very presumptuous to say that Brother Brigham was my God and Savior. Brother Joseph was his God. The one that gave Joseph the keys of the Kingdom was his God, which was Peter. Jesus Christ was his God and the God and Father of Jesus Christ was Adam.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill the Cat
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    You mean this:
    "Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken -- He is our Father, and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later." (Journal of Discourses, vol1, p50)

    FWIU, today nearly all Mormons reject this teaching of Young's
    Of course they do. They know they could not keep up the "We are Christians too!" facade.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    FWIU, today nearly all Mormons reject this teaching of Young's
    Today, MANY Mormons reject a LOT of Mormon teachings --- they just don't say so publicly.

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    Don't forget Adam/God...
    You mean this:
    "Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken -- He is our Father, and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later." (Journal of Discourses, vol1, p50)

    FWIU, today nearly all Mormons reject this teaching of Young's

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Meanies.


    Just don't do it with Sparko unless you want a punctured palm

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    OK, so my dear sweet brother beat me to this.
    It's okay Mom always said that you were kinda "slow."

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill the Cat
    replied
    Don't forget Adam/God...

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    )

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    All Brigham Young did was to take his cue from Smith, and just make up anything he wanted to say by virtue of him being a "Prophet" of God. (I started to say "The Most High God", but we don't really know that Young's God was, in FACT, the "Most High". He might have been the runt of the Gods.

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  • One Bad Pig
    replied
    Meanies.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparko
    replied
    He went on to say:

    "that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are—I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation—the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit-world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true.

    Smith will have to give them a certificate, like a passport before they can even see God or Jesus. He is the immigration officer and the doorman to heaven!

    Leave a comment:


  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Gotta love Brigham! He could NEVER own an NBA Team!

    Source: Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 290, 1859

    “You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race — that they should be the “servants of servants;” and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree.”
    LDS “Prophet” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 290, 1859

    © Copyright Original Source



    OK, so my dear sweet brother beat me to this.

    Leave a comment:

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