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Brigham Young, get thee back under that bus!

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  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    In fact when he preached, it was as good as scripture!
    "I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom...I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve. The people have the oracles of God continually." (Journal of Discourses, v13 p95).
    He continues to reinforce this claim
    "I say now, when they [his discourses] are copied and approved by me they are as good Scripture as is couched in this Bible" (Journal of Discourses, v13 p26)

    And let's not forget the claims he made about Joseph Smith such as how you needed to believe in him and gain his permission in order to get into heaven:
    "and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist" (Journal of Discourses, v9, p312)

    "no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith" (Journal of Discourses, v7, p289)

    And then there are his views about blacks and slavery:
    "In our first settlement in Missouri, it was said by our enemies that we intended to tamper with the slaves, not that we had any idea of the kind, for such a thing never entered our minds. We knew that the children of Ham were to be the "servant of servants," and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord would permit them to welter under the curse and those were known to be our religious views concerning them." (Journal of Discourses, v2, p172)

    "You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind....Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race—that they should be the ‘servant of servants’; and they will be, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree." (Journal of Discourses, v7, p290)

    "Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, v10, p110)

    Young declared to the Utah Territorial Legislature on January 16, 1852 Young that "any man having one drop of the seed of [Cain] ... in him cannot hold the priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spake it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ I know it is true and others know it." Notice how he claims that he says this as a "prophet"

    While many other religious leaders said similar things none of them were claiming to be prophets who's teachings were on par with the Bible. In light of this trying to dismiss his racism as merely a view shared by many other people in his time just doesn't cut it.

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  • Cow Poke
    replied
    Don't forget Brigham Young's involvement (or not?) in the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

    Here's the Mormonized version of it, which was forced by evidence to admit it was, in fact, a massacre by the Mormons....

    Source: LDS.org


    On Friday, September 11, Lee entered the emigrant wagon fort under a white flag and somehow convinced the besieged emigrants to accept desperate terms. He said the militia would safely escort them past the Indians and back to Cedar City, but they must leave their possessions behind and give up their weapons, signaling their peaceful intentions to the Indians. The suspicious emigrants debated what to do but in the end accepted the terms, seeing no better alternative. They had been pinned down for days with little water, the wounded in their midst were dying, and they did not have enough ammunition to fend off even one more attack.

    As directed, the youngest children and wounded left the wagon corral first, driven in two wagons, followed by women and children on foot. The men and older boys filed out last, each escorted by an armed militiaman. The procession marched for a mile or so until, at a prearranged signal, each militiaman turned and shot the emigrant next to him, while Indians rushed from their hiding place to attack the terrified women and children. Militiamen with the two front-running wagons murdered the wounded. Despite plans to pin the massacre on the Paiutes—and persistent subsequent efforts to do so—Nephi Johnson later maintained that his fellow militiamen did most of the killing.

    © Copyright Original Source

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  • Cerebrum123
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  • Cow Poke
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  • Sparko
    started a topic Brigham Young, get thee back under that bus!

    Brigham Young, get thee back under that bus!

    BY has to be the biggest embarrassment to the LDS church. While he was a Prophet, the things he said and claimed are some of the most controversial and absofreakingly arrogant and stupid things anyone has ever said in the LDS church.

    So mormons are caught in a quandry. On one hand, Brigham Young was a prophet and spoke directly with God (as the LDS believe) so if he said it, it must be true. On the other hand, what he said has been denied by other Prophets, and is a complete embarrassment to the LDS church. What to do?

    Some things said by Young:

    BY was never wrong:
    "I am here to answer. I shall be on hand to answer when I am called upon, for all the counsel and for all the instruction that I have given to this people. If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church, called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason." (Journal of Discourses, v16 p161).

    In fact when he preached, it was as good as scripture!
    "I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom...I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve. The people have the oracles of God continually." (Journal of Discourses, v13 p95).

    According to BY all current mormons are headed for hell:
    "Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned," (Journal of Discourses, v3, p266). Also, "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy," (Journal of Discourses, v11, p269).

    To check any of these quotes, here is a link to the official LDS source. Scanned and text:
    http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm/sea...lOfDiscourses3
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