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This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (the Jehovah's Witnesses). This forum is generally for theists only, and is not the area for debate between atheists and theists. Non-theist may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Regligions Department.


Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.

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  • #46
    It looks like BU has taken a vacation. He won't post until he thinks we have forgotten all his errors.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      There are many places where they intentionally add words or change words to fit their theology also. If BU or any JW quotes you the NWT, double check it with a real translation before accepting what it says.
      Kind of like how some liberals tried to sneak a comma into the Second Amendment back in the 90s so as to change its meaning in order to support the erroneous concept that it was about granting the states a right to form militias











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      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
        Actually even using the New World Translation it is quite clear that Christ is not a created being, as JWs insist. It is true that if you do not know scripture the NWT (using the term translation very very loosely) will create serious error.
        It should be noted the two passages used (Colossians 1:15 & Revelation 3:14) refer to Christ as a creation are post His incarnation and resurrection (i.e. Colossians 1:18 & Revelation 1:5 being the cross references to 1:15 & 3:14).
        . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          It should be noted the two passages used (Colossians 1:15 & Revelation 3:14) refer to Christ as a creation are post His incarnation and resurrection (i.e. Colossians 1:18 & Revelation 1:5 being the cross references to 1:15 & 3:14).
          But neither of these actually teach that Christ is a created being. Even the New World Translation does not state any differently. The Bible does not teach that Christ is a created being.
          Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
            But neither of these actually teach that Christ is a created being. Even the New World Translation does not state any differently. The Bible does not teach that Christ is a created being.
            Ah, not created being, but being part of creation. Both passages refer to Christ belonging to creation. In Colossians 1:15 "of all creation," . . . πασης κτισεως. Revelation 3:14, "of the creation," . . . της κτισεως.

            In both instances refers to the incarnate Christ in His resurrection. The Son of God became part of His own creation (John 1:3) by way of His incarnation (John 1:10, 14).
            Last edited by 37818; 01-29-2018, 09:42 AM.
            . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

            Comment


            • #51
              The incarnation does not mean that Christ was a created being, I agree.
              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                The incarnation does not mean that Christ was a created being, I agree.
                The two passages cited by JW's referring to Christ as part of creation both refer to His resurrection, He being part of creation solely do to His incarnation (John 1:14). They have absolutely no passages referring to Him being part of creation prior to His incarnation. None whatsoever. And JW's are not aware of this one little big fact.
                . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                Comment

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