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Paul: The Worship of the Lord Jesus

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  • #61
    Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
    Supply a passage where the Lord Jesus can now be supplicated but it isn't prayer.
    Your ignorance is astronomical...I will concede that supplication is an asking of someone in absolute authority to grant something (by definition it is a prayer that can be delivered to men, angels, god/s or whoever has the power of life or death over you. (See Deuteronomy where YHWH defines himself in those exact terms. Also see Exodus and the purpose of Moses' spurious sacrifices) .

    But it is hardly the prayer that Jesus told us to pray for...We, us Orthodox Christians (RCC,ROC,EOC,OOC etc), do not pray for Jesus' kingdom to come (according to Jesus), but that his Father's will be done on earth and his Father's kingdom come upon the earth. (Mt 6:19 “This, then, is how you should pray: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, Let your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven...."

    Now obviously you have a difficulty with Jesus' testimony. (What else would we expect of the effluent of American society. The pentecostal oneness hillbilly cult who are pretend Christians who deny the Father, and the distinction between the only begotten Son, and the Holy Spirit that proceeds from the Father alone, but is sent to us by the Son). Compared to your effluence, you make the JWs look almost Christian Orthodox in their aberrant teaching...

    ______________________

    For the nth time (is this the 18h time?)...your cowardise in not affirming standard (universal) Christian belief you prove yourself not a Christian. What are you? A Muslim, pretending to be a Christian? Reveal your beliefs! So far you are simply coming across as some pugnacious child who has no comprehension of standard Christianity...

    "Questions arise: Do you ascribe to the Nicene Creed or reject it? Do you believe that before his incarnation the Son was begotten by his Father, not made, God from God? Do you believe that the Son is a distinct entity/individual from his Father? Do you believe the scripture's account that the Son was incarnated not of his own volition but was sent by his Father? Do you believe that in the end of times the Son will share his Father's throne, at the will of the Father? Do you believe, as A.Paul certainly did, that God (the Father) raised Jesus from the dead? Do you believe, as the apostles John & Paul certainly did, that all Jesus did was for the glorification of his Father (cp. Jn 17, Phil 2)"

    It is obvious to all viewers, that in your cowardice and your continuous refusal (now about 18 times) to respond to such a simple Christian testimony, that in your avoidance of the most elementary beliefs of Christianity, that you reject Christianity...and instead adhere to some aberrant and heretical teaching....
    Last edited by apostoli; 08-12-2014, 01:38 AM.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by apostoli View Post
      I will concede that supplication is an asking of someone in absolute authority to grant something (by definition it is a prayer that can be delivered to men, angels, god/s or whoever has the power of life or death over you.
      That is not the sense of prayer I pointed out in Posts 1-3.
      Myriads of people, all at the same time and done in complete silence can pray to the Lord Jesus and He will fully understand them.
      This doesn't apply to any other besides God.

      Still waiting then for your passage where the Lord Jesus can be supplicated today but it isn't praying to Him.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
        That is not the sense of prayer I pointed out in Posts 1-3.
        Myriads of people, all at the same time and done in complete silence can pray to the Lord Jesus and He will fully understand them.
        This doesn't apply to any other besides God.

        Still waiting then for your passage where the Lord Jesus can be supplicated today but it isn't praying to Him.
        If you weren't so illiterate you would have noted that I admitted that supplication is a "prayer" delivered to men, angels, god/s or whoever has the power of life or death over you. (See Deuteronomy where YHWH defines himself in those exact terms. Also see Exodus and the purpose of Moses' spurious sacrifices).

        What I believe you are missing, in the aberrant teaching, of the aberrant church you attend, is God (the God and father of Jesus Christ) is there is no other autotheos, other than the Father of Jesus Christ. As Jesus puts it (Jn 20:17) "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." Now, by Jesus' own witness, via our only eye witness, he, himself, has a GOD!!! A.Paul makes the same point in 1 Cor 15:28!!!

        ______________________

        For the nth time (this is the 19h time!)...your cowardise in not affirming standard (universal) Christian belief you prove yourself not a Christian. What are you? A Muslim, pretending to be a Christian? Reveal your beliefs! So far you are simply coming across as some pugnacious child who has no comprehension of standard Christianity...

        "Questions arise: Do you ascribe to the Nicene Creed or reject it? Do you believe that before his incarnation the Son was begotten by his Father, not made, God from God? Do you believe that the Son is a distinct entity/individual from his Father? Do you believe the scripture's account that the Son was incarnated not of his own volition but was sent by his Father? Do you believe that in the end of times the Son will share his Father's throne, at the will of the Father? Do you believe, as A.Paul certainly did, that God (the Father) raised Jesus from the dead? Do you believe, as the apostles John & Paul certainly did, that all Jesus did was for the glorification of his Father (cp. Jn 17, Phil 2)"

        It is obvious to all viewers, that in your cowardice and your continuous refusal (19 times) to respond to such a simple Christian testimony, that in your avoidance of the most elementary beliefs of Christianity, that you reject Christianity...and instead adhere to some aberrant and heretical teaching....

        Comment


        • #64
          See first sentence in my previous post.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
            See first sentence in my previous post.
            Obviously, you reject Jesus' and Christian testimony... Orthodox Christians (RCC,ROC,EOC,OOC etc), do not pray for Jesus' kingdom to come (according to Jesus), but that his Father's will be done on earth and his Father's kingdom come upon the earth. (Mt 6:19 “This, then, is how you should pray: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, Let your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven....

            I'll have to assume you adhere to one of the get rich quick churches (almost always one of the oneness pentecostal churches). As I said earlier, prayer is not an asking occupation (a supplication) but in Christian belief it is a thanksgiving....or more particularly an expectation of the Father's faithfullness to the Son through the Holy Spirit...

            ______________________

            For the nth time (this is the 20h time!)...your cowardise in not affirming standard (universal) Christian belief you prove yourself not a Christian. What are you? A Muslim, pretending to be a Christian, or a Oneness believer who defies the Christian Bible? Reveal your beliefs! So far you are simply coming across as some pugnacious child who has no comprehension of standard Christianity...

            "Questions arise: Do you ascribe to the Nicene Creed or reject it? Do you believe that before his incarnation the Son was begotten by his Father, not made, God from God? Do you believe that the Son is a distinct entity/individual from his Father? Do you believe the scripture's account that the Son was incarnated not of his own volition but was sent by his Father? Do you believe that in the end of times the Son will share his Father's throne, at the will of the Father? Do you believe, as A.Paul certainly did, that God (the Father) raised Jesus from the dead? Do you believe, as the apostles John & Paul certainly did, that all Jesus did was for the glorification of his Father (cp. Jn 17, Phil 2)"

            It is obvious to all viewers, that in your cowardice and your continuous refusal (20 times) to respond to such a simple Christian testimony, that in your avoidance of the most elementary beliefs of Christianity, that you reject Christianity...and instead adhere to some aberrant and heretical teaching....
            Last edited by apostoli; 08-12-2014, 10:03 AM.

            Comment


            • #66
              See Post #60.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                See Post #60.
                Obviously, you reject Jesus' and Christian testimony... Orthodox Christians (RCC,ROC,EOC,OOC etc), do not pray for Jesus' kingdom to come (according to Jesus), but that his Father's will be done on earth and his Father's kingdom come upon the earth. (Mt 6:19 “This, then, is how you should pray: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, Let your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven....

                I'll have to assume you adhere to one of the get rich quick (pretend) churches (almost always one of the oneness pentecostal churches). As I said earlier, prayer is not an asking occupation but in Christian belief it is a thanksgiving....or more particularly an experience of the Father's faithfulness to the Son through the Holy Spirit...

                ______________________

                I've given you 20 chances to aspire to Christian belief...your cowardise in not affirming standard (universal) Christian belief you prove yourself not a Christian. The most obvious conclusion is you are a oneness believer who defies the Christian Bible? (A believer in a sect that arose in Rome in the 200s CE and was quickly discarded)! Continuously you are coming across as some pugnacious child who has no comprehension of standard Christianity... You don't impress me, and I doubt anyone else. Simply put...You don't have an argument!!!! I only converse with you, because your arrogant ignorance keeps me amused...

                Let us summarise your denials of the Christian faith:

                1. You reject the teaching of the Nicene Creed, even though it has been reaffirmed continuously by the majority churches since at least 325CE.

                2. You reject that Jesus was begotten of the Father, not made, God from God.

                3. You reject that the Son is a distinct entity/individual/person from his Father. (You assume, despite the testimony of scripture, that the Father and Son are simply fabrications of the same person).

                4. You believe the Son was incarnated, as a phantasm, not a real person, who obviously, as being such, could not die on the cross.

                5. As you believe the Father and the Son are simply manifestations of the same person, then obviously you reject the witness of the NT, and most particularly reject A.John's testimony in the book of Revelation. Which is most strange! Given A.John, in his vision. has it that, in the end of times, the Son shares his Father's throne.

                6. You reject A.Paul's testimony that God (the Father) raised Jesus from the dead! ((Acts 2:24, 32; 3:15, 26; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30, 33, 34, 37; Rom. 4:24; 6:4; 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; Gal. 1:1; Col. 2:12; Rom 8:11).

                7. You reject A.John's & A.Paul's inspired testimony, that all Jesus did, including his death and resurrection, was for the glorification of his Father (cp. Jn 17, Phil 2)

                It is obvious to all viewers, that in your cowardice and your continuous refusal (20 times) to respond to the simple Christian (universal) testimony I presented to you, that in your avoidance of the most elementary beliefs of Christianity, that you reject mainstream and orthodox Christianity...

                So it greatly amuses me that in your absolute ignorance you would dare to persecute the JWs, given you are standing on very thin ice in your apostasy...(defiance against mainstream Christian teaching).
                Last edited by apostoli; 08-14-2014, 03:39 AM.

                Comment


                • #68
                  See Post #66.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                    See Post #66.
                    OK! We have now firmly established you reject all the teachings of the Orthodox and established church!!! You have incriminated yourself repetitively, and therefore totally ignorable!!! But as I said many posts ago, there is no way I will let you off the hook...You in your aberrancy of standard Christian (Trinitarian) belief have revealed your apostasy and your denial of Jesus Christ (not to mention the witness of the majority of scripture).

                    Obviously, you reject Jesus' and Christian testimony... Orthodox Christians (RCC,ROC,EOC,OOC etc), do not pray for Jesus' kingdom to come (according to Jesus), but that his Father's will be done on earth and his Father's kingdom come upon the earth. (Mt 6:19 “This, then, is how you should pray: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, Let your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven....

                    I'll have to assume you adhere to one of the get rich quick (pretend) churches (almost always one of the oneness pentecostal churches). As I said earlier, prayer is not an asking occupation but in Christian belief it is a thanksgiving....or more particularly an experience of the Father's faithfulness to the Son through the Holy Spirit...

                    ______________________

                    I gave you 20 chances to aspire to Christian belief...your cowardise in not affirming standard (universal) Christian belief proves your are not a Christian. The most obvious conclusion is you are a oneness believer who defies the Christian Bible? (A believer in a sect that arose in Rome in the 200s CE and was quickly discarded)! Continuously you are coming across as some pugnacious child who has no comprehension of standard Christianity...let alone comprehensive civility. You don't impress me, and I doubt anyone else.

                    Simply put! You don't have a plausible argument!!!!

                    ______________________

                    Let us, again, summarise your denials of the standard/orthodox Christian faith:

                    1. You reject the teaching of the Nicene Creed, even though it has been reaffirmed continuously by the majority churches since at least 325CE.

                    2. You reject that Jesus was begotten of the Father, not made, God from God.

                    3. You reject that the Son is a distinct entity/individual/person from his Father. (You assume, despite the testimony of scripture, that the Father and Son are simply fabrications of the same person).

                    4. You believe the Son was incarnated, as a phantasm, not a real person, who obviously, as being such, could not die on the cross.

                    5. As you believe the Father and the Son are simply manifestations of the same person, then obviously you reject the witness of the NT, and most particularly reject A.John's testimony in the book of Revelation. Which is most strange! Given A.John, in his vision. has it that, in the end of times, the Son shares his Father's throne.

                    6. You reject A.Paul's testimony that God (the Father) raised Jesus from the dead! ((Acts 2:24, 32; 3:15, 26; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30, 33, 34, 37; Rom. 4:24; 6:4; 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; Gal. 1:1; Col. 2:12; Rom 8:11).

                    7. You reject A.John's & A.Paul's inspired testimony, that all Jesus did, including his death and resurrection, was for the glorification of his Father (cp. Jn 17, Phil 2)

                    It is obvious to all viewers, that in your attempted diversions, not to mention the transparancy of your cowardice through your continuous refusal (20 times) to respond to the simple Christian (universal) testimony I presented to you, that in your avoidance of the most elementary beliefs of Christianity, that you reject mainstream and orthodox Christianity...

                    So it greatly amuses me that in your absolute ignorance you would dare to persecute the JWs, given you are drowning in your delusional apostasy.

                    It grieves me that you are so anti-Christ, that you reject his teaching, his disciples teaching, the apostles teaching and the teaching of mainstream Christianity (RCC,ROC,EOC,OCC,CoE,Lutherans etc etc)...

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      See Post #68.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                        See Post #68.
                        It is plainly obvious you do not subscribe to any form of Christianity...

                        Let us, again, summarise your denials of the standard/orthodox Christian faith:

                        1. You reject the teaching of the Nicene Creed, even though it has been reaffirmed continuously by the majority churches since at least 325CE.

                        2. You reject that Jesus was begotten of the Father, not made, God from God.

                        3. You reject that the Son is a distinct entity/individual/person from his Father. (You assume, despite the testimony of scripture, that the Father and Son are simply fabrications of the same person).

                        4. You believe the Son was incarnated, as a phantasm, not a real person, who obviously, as being such, could not die on the cross.

                        5. As you believe the Father and the Son are simply manifestations of the same person, then obviously you reject the witness of the NT, and most particularly reject A.John's testimony in the book of Revelation. Which is most strange! Given A.John, in his vision. has it that, in the end of times, the Son shares his Father's throne.

                        6. You reject A.Paul's testimony that God (the Father) raised Jesus from the dead! ((Acts 2:24, 32; 3:15, 26; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30, 33, 34, 37; Rom. 4:24; 6:4; 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; Gal. 1:1; Col. 2:12; Rom 8:11).

                        7. You reject A.John's & A.Paul's inspired testimony, that all Jesus did, including his death and resurrection, was for the glorification of his Father (cp. Jn 17, Phil 2)

                        It is obvious to all viewers, that in your attempted diversions, not to mention the transparancy of your cowardice through your continuous refusal (20 times) to respond to the simple Christian (universal) testimony I presented to you, that in your avoidance of the most elementary beliefs of Christianity, that you reject mainstream and orthodox Christianity...

                        So it greatly amuses me that in your absolute ignorance you would dare to persecute the JWs, given you are drowning in your delusional apostasy.

                        It grieves me that you are so anti-Christ, that you reject his teaching, his disciples teaching, the apostles teaching and the teaching of mainstream Christianity (RCC,ROC,EOC,OCC,CoE,Lutherans etc etc)...

                        _________________

                        ps grasshopper: Get a concordance and discover the difference between proseuchē and deēsis then you might be able to formulate an argument...
                        Last edited by apostoli; 08-14-2014, 11:06 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          I think there is something wrong with you.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                            I think there is something wrong with you.
                            I know there is something wrong with you!!!! Possibly a bit too much weed????

                            In any case we have established over a lengthy period of time your total rejection of Christian belief...

                            _________________________

                            It is plainly obvious you do not subscribe to any form of Christianity...

                            Let us, again, summarise your denials of the standard/orthodox Christian faith:

                            1. You reject the teaching of the Nicene Creed, even though it has been reaffirmed continuously by the majority churches since at least 325CE.

                            2. You reject that Jesus was begotten of the Father, not made, God from God.

                            3. You reject that the Son is a distinct entity/individual/person from his Father. (You assume, despite the testimony of scripture, that the Father and Son are simply fabrications of the same person).

                            4. You believe the Son was incarnated, as a phantasm, not a real person, who obviously, as being such, could not die on the cross.

                            5. As you believe the Father and the Son are simply manifestations of the same person, then obviously you reject the witness of the NT, and most particularly reject A.John's testimony in the book of Revelation. Which is most strange! Given A.John, in his vision. has it that, in the end of times, the Son shares his Father's throne.

                            6. You reject A.Paul's testimony that God (the Father) raised Jesus from the dead! ((Acts 2:24, 32; 3:15, 26; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30, 33, 34, 37; Rom. 4:24; 6:4; 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; Gal. 1:1; Col. 2:12; Rom 8:11).

                            7. You reject A.John's & A.Paul's inspired testimony, that all Jesus did, including his death and resurrection, was for the glorification of his Father (cp. Jn 17, Phil 2)

                            It is obvious to all viewers, that in your attempted diversions, not to mention the transparancy of your cowardice through your continuous refusal (20 times) to respond to the simple Christian (universal) testimony I presented to you, that in your avoidance of the most elementary beliefs of Christianity, that you reject mainstream and orthodox Christianity...

                            So it greatly amuses me that in your absolute ignorance you would dare to persecute the JWs, given you are drowning in your delusional apostasy.

                            It grieves me that you are so anti-Christ, that you reject his teaching, his disciples teaching, the apostles teaching and the teaching of mainstream Christianity (RCC,ROC,EOC,OCC,CoE,Lutherans etc etc)...

                            _________________

                            ps grasshopper: Get a concordance and discover the difference between proseuchē and deēsis then you might be able to formulate an argument...

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              See Post #60.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                                See Post #60.
                                By your own witness, we have established over a lengthy period of time your total rejection of Christian belief...

                                It is plainly obvious you do not subscribe to any form of Orthodox or Mainstream Christianity...

                                Let us, again, summarise your denials of the standard/orthodox/mainstream Christian faith:

                                1. You reject the teaching of the Nicene Creed, even though it has been reaffirmed continuously by the majority churches since at least 325CE.

                                2. You reject that Jesus was begotten of the Father, not made, God from God.

                                3. You reject that the Son is a distinct entity/individual/person from his Father. (You assume, despite the testimony of scripture, that the Father and Son are simply fabrications of the same person).

                                4. You believe the Son was incarnated, as a phantasm, not a real person, who obviously, as being such, could not die on the cross.

                                5. As you believe the Father and the Son are simply manifestations of the same person, then obviously you reject the witness of the NT, and most particularly reject A.John's testimony in the book of Revelation. Which is most strange! Given A.John, in his vision. has it that, in the end of times, the Son shares his Father's throne.

                                6. You reject A.Paul's testimony that God (the Father) raised Jesus from the dead! ((Acts 2:24, 32; 3:15, 26; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30, 33, 34, 37; Rom. 4:24; 6:4; 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; Gal. 1:1; Col. 2:12; Rom 8:11).

                                7. You reject A.John's & A.Paul's inspired testimony, that all Jesus did, including his death and resurrection, was for the glorification of his Father (cp. Jn 17, Phil 2)

                                It is obvious to all viewers, that in your attempted diversions, not to mention the transparency of your cowardice through your continuous refusal (20 times) to respond to the simple Christian (universal) testimony I presented to you, that in your avoidance of the most elementary beliefs of Christianity, that you reject mainstream and orthodox Christianity...

                                So it greatly amuses me that in your absolute ignorance you would dare to persecute the JWs, given you are drowning in your delusional apostasy.

                                It grieves me that you are so anti-Christ, that you reject his teaching, his disciples teaching, the apostles teaching and the teaching of mainstream Christianity (RCC,ROC,EOC,OCC,CoE,Lutherans etc etc)...

                                Comment

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