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Judaism's indifferrence to other religions

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  • Judaism's indifferrence to other religions

    In my readings, and experiences with interaction with Jews I find an indifference to other religions and their believers. My interaction with Jews reflects a polite indifferent tolerance and distance to other beliefs including the Baha'i Faith. Where other religions like Christianity there is more and active involvement and interest good and bad relationships concerning other religions.

    For example: Jews generally consider Jesus, and Christian Jews to be heretics, where non-Jewish Christian believers are not considered heretics, but simply other non-Jews who believe differently.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  • #2
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
      In my readings, and experiences with interaction with Jews I find an indifference to other religions and their believers. My interaction with Jews reflects a polite indifferent tolerance and distance to other beliefs including the Baha'i Faith.
      I view that "indifference" as a positive thing. We don't force our beliefs down anyone's throat. Nor do we say that only Jews will get to Heaven. Non-Jews can believe whatever they want to believe, it has no effect on us. I wish that other religions could find the same peace that we enjoy.

      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
      Jews generally consider Jesus, and Christian Jews to be heretics, where non-Jewish Christian believers are not considered heretics, but simply other non-Jews who believe differently.
      Yes, those are different. According to Mirriam-Webster Dictionary, heretics are 1) dissenter from established religious dogma or 2) one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine. We define people that that were formerly Jews, but are now idol-worshippers, as heretics. We try to get them to see reason and return to Judaism. People that were never Jews are in the class of people that can have their own beliefs (see above).

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Scorching Wizard View Post
        I view that "indifference" as a positive thing. We don't force our beliefs down anyone's throat. Nor do we say that only Jews will get to Heaven. Non-Jews can believe whatever they want to believe, it has no effect on us. I wish that other religions could find the same peace that we enjoy.
        I do not believe that it is a matter of who 'forces their beliefs down anyone throat,' because the indifference is for all who are non-jews regardless. The highlighted above is very revealing.

        Yes, those are different. According to Mirriam-Webster Dictionary, heretics are 1) dissenter from established religious dogma or 2) one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine. We define people that that were formerly Jews, but are now idol-worshippers, as heretics. We try to get them to see reason and return to Judaism. People that were never Jews are in the class of people that can have their own beliefs (see above).
        By the definitions all those who consider the Torah a Holy Book would be dissenter of accepted belief and doctrine and a heretic including Christians who believe Jesus Christ is God. Yes, Jews do consider non-Jews with indifference regardless. This the interesting issue of the nature of the culture of being Jewish particularly those blood related.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #5
          So what do you consider "revealing"?

          We don't apply the heretic label to everybody. We only apply it to people that were formerly adherents of Judaism that are now adherents of a different religion. What's your issue? What do you think is so interesting?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Scorching Wizard View Post
            So what do you consider "revealing"?

            We don't apply the heretic label to everybody. We only apply it to people that were formerly adherents of Judaism that are now adherents of a different religion. What's your issue? What do you think is so interesting?
            The isolationist nature of Judaism.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #7
              OK, so you're back to your first post.

              Post#1 meet my post#3.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Scorching Wizard View Post
                OK, so you're back to your first post.

                Post#1 meet my post#3.
                I do not consider 'indifference' a good thing. It is an isolationist view both spiritually and physically, which creates a stage of violence between religions.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  I do not consider 'indifference' a good thing. It is an isolationist view both spiritually and physically, which creates a stage of violence between religions.
                  Indifference is much better than misrepresentation.
                  βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                  ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                  אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    I do not consider 'indifference' a good thing. It is an isolationist view both spiritually and physically, which creates a stage of violence between religions.
                    in my experience the "Jews" are not indifferent when it comes to other "Jews" or for that matter Christians. There is huge intolerance (in declining order) between the ultra-orthodox, the orthodox, another division whose label I forget, and the liberals. Then there are the prejudices like it is OK for a Jewish male to marry a Christian but total anathema for a Jewish girl to marry a Christian (I presume the rule applies to any inter-marriage).

                    I had/have a very close Jewish friend who was engaged to a Jewish guy. Though she was a practicing Jew, his family did everything to break the engagement, because she was not Jewish enough (???) They were successful.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      I do not consider 'indifference' a good thing. It is an isolationist view both spiritually and physically, which creates a stage of violence between religions.
                      I don't see how indifference leads to violence. Throughout history, it was other religions' zeal for conversion that led to violence against us.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by apostoli View Post
                        in my experience the "Jews" are not indifferent when it comes to other "Jews" or for that matter Christians. There is huge intolerance (in declining order) between the ultra-orthodox, the orthodox, another division whose label I forget (sic: Conservative), and the liberals (sic: Reform).
                        When it comes to inter-religious relationships, it really depends on what the topic is. On the whole, we are quite touchy about conversion attempts by Christians. We've had a long history of blood, persecution, and intolerance lodged against us from Christianity.

                        Originally posted by apostoli View Post
                        Then there are the prejudices like it is OK for a Jewish male to marry a Christian but total anathema for a Jewish girl to marry a Christian (I presume the rule applies to any inter-marriage).
                        Actually, we are mostly against any Jew marrying someone of a different religion. And that anti inter-marriage concept applies among Christians as well. I personally know someone whose parents squashed a wedding between a Protestant and a Catholic.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Scorching Wizard View Post
                          When it comes to inter-religious relationships, it really depends on what the topic is. On the whole, we are quite touchy about conversion attempts by Christians. We've had a long history of blood, persecution, and intolerance lodged against us from Christianity.
                          Well there was that period in Yemen in the 5th-6th century where it went the other way around.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                            Well there was that period in Yemen in the 5th-6th century where it went the other way around.
                            ...not to mention the first couple centuries CE (not that this excuses subsequent persecution the other way 'round).
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Scorching Wizard View Post
                              I don't see how indifference leads to violence. Throughout history, it was other religions' zeal for conversion that led to violence against us.
                              True and false. Throughout history it was religious zeal, not necessarily for conversion, that religions including Judaism committed violence against non-believers. The over all problem is that the isolationist paradigm breeds separation, indifference and lack of concern for the universal condition of humanity beyond ones own beliefs, which by the evidence in history breeds violence and worse.
                              Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-23-2015, 08:07 AM.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment

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