Announcement

Collapse

Judaism Guidelines

Theists only.

Shalom!


This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the world religion of Judaism in general and also its relationship to Christianity. This forum is generally for theists only. Non-theists (eg, atheistic Jews) may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.

Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Two bloods.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Two bloods.

    But how does excluding one gender for a virgin birth in your terminology help if "the main part of my creation is from a male and a female, both of whom are full of iniquity" to quote Rashi. . . If God needs a sinless Mary, and an absent father to produce Jesus, there is neither normal male nor normal female involved. The whole thing is a charade. It's not "male" that's being excluded, but "human". In which case, why the convoluted story with Mary and Joseph at all?
    Mary is not sinless since sin infects every cell of every body (save one: the seed of the woman after meiotic cleansing). The female seed throws off half of it's chromosomes in the process that makes the seed of the woman the only cell in the human body that has no sin. The male seed doesn't throw off half of its chromosomes. The splitting in preparation for uniting with the seed of the woman doesn't include any loss as in the case of the seed of the woman. One male seed splits into four semen with no loss of material.

    Biologist have struggled to understand why the female seed throws off part of its material. They suggest there doesn't seem to be any purpose to it. But it's the most important process in the entire reproductive system. Without it, Genesis 3:15 would have no fulfillment.

    Jewish sages have discussed the difference between circumcision blood versus menstrual blood: one is clean and purifying (circumcision blood) while the other is unclean and contaminating (niddah: menstrual blood).

    But why?

    In meiotic cleansing, the female seed causes a cross-over of all sin into half of its mass that's thrown of during menstruation. The sin is in the blood that leaves the body with the sinful 23 chromosomes. It's sinful blood: niddah. . . But the ovum is now purified, clean, the only clean cell in the human body. But the male seed doesn't cleanse itself. The male seed remains contaminated with sin. . . So why is circumcision blood clean, and menstrual blood contaminated?

    The answer lies in something Rabbi L. Hoffman points out in his book on the covenant of blood. He explains that circumcision blood is not just clean, but a cleaner . . . a cleanser. According to Rabbi Hoffman, it can save. It's salvific. Once it's understood that circumcision blood is salvific, it cleans, cleanses, saves, it becomes apparent why circumcision blood, unlike menstrual blood, is not contaminated with sin. Menstrual blood cleanses the ovum by sacrificing half of its material in meiotic cleansing. Once the sin is in the blood, and the blood is removed from the body, the ovum is pure, and the sin is outside the body (in the menstrual blood).

    The male reproductive system cleanses itself from sin simply by allowing the female ovum, purified through menstruation, to remain pure. In other words, the blood of the phallus (circumcision blood) is ritually pure since in the ritual it represents emasculation, which saves the purified ovum from re-contamination. In the two part process, the ovum throws off sin in the menstrual blood, making the blood niddah, contaminated, unclean (infested with sin) . . . while the cutting of the phallus, creating circumcision blood, rather than throwing off sin, throws off the means by which every single ovum but one in human history has been recontaminated after the menstrual cleansing process.

    According to many Jewish sages, the difference between menstrual blood and circumcision blood is that menstrual blood is about nature while circumcision blood is under the control of the Jewish male. The controlled nature of circumcision blood, versus the uncontrolled, natural, nature of the blood of the niddah (menstruant) is part and parcel of the reason circumcision blood is good, and menstrual blood bad. This fits nicely with what's being presented since through postlapsarian nature every single birth leads inevitably to death. Without the act of a Jewish male (Abraham) nature would abide in death not just till kingdom come --- since it wouldn't ---- but forever and ever world without end.

    The act of a human being --- Abraham --- thwarted death once and for all. Which is to say that by an "un-natural" act ---- symbolically removing an organ designed by god (the ultimate act of antinomian desecration) ----a man, a human being, upset the apple-cart of postlapsarian nature. Abraham symbolically took back from nature what nature stole from man in the Fall. In the Fall nature usurped man's divine authority over nature. Man became subject to nature --- and natural death. But when Abraham took hold of the organ most under control of natural passions, and in an act of Passion, bled it to death, he symbolically ended nature's reign over mankind, returning mankind, symbolically, to the Garden of Eden.

    What Abraham accomplished in ritual form, God made real with the birth of the first child born in the actuality of what Abraham performed ritually.

    Only through the virgin birth of Jesus of Nazareth could any one appreciate the ritual purity of circumcision blood. It's ritually pure because in the ritual it represents the end of nature's reign of terror whereby by use of the greatest of passions, nature passes on death over and over again. And this, through the organ most under control of nature's passions.

    In the spiritual Passion of Abraham, the blood of nature's favored organ became the mark on the human body signifying the end of nature's reign. The mark became more than merely a ritual mark when the blood Abraham spilled spilled onto the pages of the New Torah, which was written not by the "natural" amanuensis and scribe of God: the firstborn creature who usurped the birth order by coming out of the womb of creation ahead of Adam, but by a son of Adam, a Son of Man, who, is the true Firstborn of God's Creation, the firstfruits of all those who he will rescue from natural death.



    XR

  • #2
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

    Comment


    • #3
      However we understand sin nature, I have to think that invoking modern biological concepts is going to be "missing the mark" (sorry, couldn't resist the pun).
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Xtian Rabinovich View Post
        Mary is not sinless since sin infects every cell of every body (save one: the seed of the woman after meiotic cleansing). The female seed throws off half of it's chromosomes in the process that makes the seed of the woman the only cell in the human body that has no sin. The male seed doesn't throw off half of its chromosomes. The splitting in preparation for uniting with the seed of the woman doesn't include any loss as in the case of the seed of the woman. One male seed splits into four semen with no loss of material.

        Biologist have struggled to understand why the female seed throws off part of its material. They suggest there doesn't seem to be any purpose to it. But it's the most important process in the entire reproductive system. Without it, Genesis 3:15 would have no fulfillment.

        Jewish sages have discussed the difference between circumcision blood versus menstrual blood: one is clean and purifying (circumcision blood) while the other is unclean and contaminating (niddah: menstrual blood).

        But why?

        In meiotic cleansing, the female seed causes a cross-over of all sin into half of its mass that's thrown of during menstruation. The sin is in the blood that leaves the body with the sinful 23 chromosomes. It's sinful blood: niddah. . . But the ovum is now purified, clean, the only clean cell in the human body. But the male seed doesn't cleanse itself. The male seed remains contaminated with sin. . . So why is circumcision blood clean, and menstrual blood contaminated?

        The answer lies in something Rabbi L. Hoffman points out in his book on the covenant of blood. He explains that circumcision blood is not just clean, but a cleaner . . . a cleanser. According to Rabbi Hoffman, it can save. It's salvific. Once it's understood that circumcision blood is salvific, it cleans, cleanses, saves, it becomes apparent why circumcision blood, unlike menstrual blood, is not contaminated with sin. Menstrual blood cleanses the ovum by sacrificing half of its material in meiotic cleansing. Once the sin is in the blood, and the blood is removed from the body, the ovum is pure, and the sin is outside the body (in the menstrual blood).

        The male reproductive system cleanses itself from sin simply by allowing the female ovum, purified through menstruation, to remain pure. In other words, the blood of the phallus (circumcision blood) is ritually pure since in the ritual it represents emasculation, which saves the purified ovum from re-contamination. In the two part process, the ovum throws off sin in the menstrual blood, making the blood niddah, contaminated, unclean (infested with sin) . . . while the cutting of the phallus, creating circumcision blood, rather than throwing off sin, throws off the means by which every single ovum but one in human history has been recontaminated after the menstrual cleansing process.

        According to many Jewish sages, the difference between menstrual blood and circumcision blood is that menstrual blood is about nature while circumcision blood is under the control of the Jewish male. The controlled nature of circumcision blood, versus the uncontrolled, natural, nature of the blood of the niddah (menstruant) is part and parcel of the reason circumcision blood is good, and menstrual blood bad. This fits nicely with what's being presented since through postlapsarian nature every single birth leads inevitably to death. Without the act of a Jewish male (Abraham) nature would abide in death not just till kingdom come --- since it wouldn't ---- but forever and ever world without end.

        The act of a human being --- Abraham --- thwarted death once and for all. Which is to say that by an "un-natural" act ---- symbolically removing an organ designed by god (the ultimate act of antinomian desecration) ----a man, a human being, upset the apple-cart of postlapsarian nature. Abraham symbolically took back from nature what nature stole from man in the Fall. In the Fall nature usurped man's divine authority over nature. Man became subject to nature --- and natural death. But when Abraham took hold of the organ most under control of natural passions, and in an act of Passion, bled it to death, he symbolically ended nature's reign over mankind, returning mankind, symbolically, to the Garden of Eden.

        What Abraham accomplished in ritual form, God made real with the birth of the first child born in the actuality of what Abraham performed ritually.

        Only through the virgin birth of Jesus of Nazareth could any one appreciate the ritual purity of circumcision blood. It's ritually pure because in the ritual it represents the end of nature's reign of terror whereby by use of the greatest of passions, nature passes on death over and over again. And this, through the organ most under control of nature's passions.

        In the spiritual Passion of Abraham, the blood of nature's favored organ became the mark on the human body signifying the end of nature's reign. The mark became more than merely a ritual mark when the blood Abraham spilled spilled onto the pages of the New Torah, which was written not by the "natural" amanuensis and scribe of God: the firstborn creature who usurped the birth order by coming out of the womb of creation ahead of Adam, but by a son of Adam, a Son of Man, who, is the true Firstborn of God's Creation, the firstfruits of all those who he will rescue from natural death.



        XR
        A rather contorted contrived explanation.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Xtian Rabinovich View Post
          Mary is not sinless since sin infects every cell of every body
          Is this your original work?
          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #6
            This thread is inane.

            Man has a sinful nature because man obtained God's knowledge of good and evil in the disobedience (Genesis 3:22). While man was created good, man is only finite good. God is infinite good. Any knowledge of evil corrupts finite good. No amount of evil can corrupt infinite good.

            Now Jesus being born of a human Mother is then also a descendent from Adam. Receiving the inheritance of what causes the sinful nature in men. But because Jesus is the Son of God, being God in the flesh, that same knowledge of good and evil which causes the sinful nature, was always part of His eternal divine nature. So Jesus who was fully man would not sin because He also was fully God in the flesh (Hebrews 4:15; Mark 10:18).
            Last edited by 37818; 02-16-2015, 05:01 PM.
            . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
              This thread is inane.
              And quite possibly plagiarized.
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Shunyadragon,

                A rather contorted contrived explanation.
                I should suppose so if you're new to this sort of thing . . . .



                XR

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Cow Poke,

                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  And quite possibly plagiarized.
                  Thank you. I take that as a compliment.



                  XR

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Xtian Rabinovich View Post
                    Hi Cow Poke,



                    Thank you. I take that as a compliment.



                    XR
                    Unless it's your original work, it's a violation of decorum, and you will receive infraction points.

                    So, I ask again - in my official role as moderator - is this your original work?
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      Google translate couldn't put this into English for me.
                      "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
                      "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
                      Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Cow Poke,

                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Unless it's your original work, it's a violation of decorum, and you will receive infraction points.

                        So, I ask again - in my official role as moderator - is this your original work?
                        Yes.



                        XR

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What. The OP makes zero sense.
                          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                            What. The OP makes zero sense.
                            He makes sense....but, I don't agree with it. Mary, and according to the ritual cleansing after birth and the reason for it, would not have been unclean. Although the law of ritual purity had to apply, Chapter 12 of Leviticus describes a category of blood found after birth which is considered ritually pure. Immediately after birth of a male child, the woman is impure for seven days - The woman is forbidden to come to the Temple during this time. As a comparison with Matthew 8:4, "Then Jesus said to him, "See that you don't tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them."

                            As a testimony to them.........

                            Mary - couldn't have been ritually impure after giving birth, to Jesus.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              And quite possibly plagiarized.
                              https://www.religiousforums.com/thre...bloods.173849/
                              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                              Comment

                              widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                              Working...
                              X