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Messiah

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  • #16
    lol Johnny you are just quoting some guys opinion, it is like quoting Benny Hinn, or Joel osteen etc



    "where is peace?" for past 2000 years there was more bloodshed in Jesus name !!! than ever possible
    Last edited by alexeyhurricane; 02-09-2014, 02:29 PM.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Ladybug823 View Post
      I don't know if we have any Jews here but I am curious as to what you think the arrival of the messiah will look like and why you don't believe Jesus is the messiah. I am also curious as to what you believe the purpose of the messiah is.
      Messiah means king. There will not be an "arrival" of the messiah. He will be born and grow up like any other human. The messianic era will be a golden age characterised by world peace, universal knowledge of God, the return of Jews to the land of Israel, and the re-building of the Temple in Jerusalem. When we say "messiah", we refer to the king who will reign during that golden age. He may not be personally responsible for all these things but they are the key features of his reign. Jesus wasn't the messiah because he wasn't even a messiah (king) -- he was a carpenter.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by JohnnyP View Post
        Where in the article does it explain how the idea that "the Rebbe is God, but he is also physical" is not similar to the function of incarnation? You keep saying it isn't without supporting your assertion with any evidence.
        The Rebbe isn't God.

        You are misunderstanding the shattering of the vessels.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Trekkie View Post
          The Rebbe isn't God.

          You are misunderstanding the shattering of the vessels.
          Agreed.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by JohnnyP View Post
            Where in the article does it explain how the idea that "the Rebbe is God, but he is also physical" is not similar to the function of incarnation? You keep saying it isn't without supporting your assertion with any evidence.
            ,
            No, the evidence is the reference you cited, god in the context of the reference is the Jewish context of god, and sons of god, also referred to in the gospels.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
              From your source: 'Rebbe is a god.'
              This appears to be the opinion of the (skeptical) journalist, not the interviewees in general.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by alexeyhurricane View Post
                lol Johnny you are just quoting some guys opinion, it is like quoting Benny Hinn, or Joel osteen etc
                No one is saying this is a mainstream Jewish belief.

                "where is peace?" for past 2000 years there was more bloodshed in Jesus name !!! than ever possible
                Your inaccurate hyperbole aside, Jesus predicted that he would cause division; peace will not come until he returns at the consummation of the ages.
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  No one is saying this is a mainstream Jewish belief.
                  Neither is it the belief of Rebbe's followers.


                  Originally posted by ????
                  Your inaccurate hyperbole aside, Jesus predicted that he would cause division; peace will not come until he returns at the consummation of the ages.
                  You included this as if it was a quote by me. I do not believe I made this statement. I believe it a quote by alexeyhurricane.

                  "where is peace?" for past 2000 years there was more bloodshed in Jesus name !!! than ever possible
                  Last edited by shunyadragon; 03-06-2014, 05:47 PM.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    Neither is it the belief of Rebbe's followers.




                    You included this as if it was a quote by me. I do not believe I made this statement. I believe it a quote by alexeyhurricane.

                    "where is peace?" for past 2000 years there was more bloodshed in Jesus name !!! than ever possible
                    Yes, all the material in the post to which you responded was in response to alexeyhurricane. I apologize if that was not clear.
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Ladybug823 View Post
                      I don't know if we have any Jews here
                      CLEARLY, that is the case. I've never seen more misrepresentation of my ancestral faith than within this thread!

                      Originally posted by Ladybug823 View Post
                      but I am curious as to what you think the arrival of the messiah will look like and why you don't believe Jesus is the messiah. I am also curious as to what you believe the purpose of the messiah is.
                      When I attend Shul, it is at a Reformed community, so my response will be from that perspective.

                      Here goes: we don't really give it a moment's thought. After the Shoah, we realized that waiting around for a messiah was a fool's game. As Hillel said: “If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now, when?” And, the great Rabbi said that BEFORE the time of Jesus. We have been evolving for quite some time, now.

                      As for all this about the Hasidim's bizzaro claims of some kind of trinitarian views within Judaism. Well, you should know that we Jews accept all ideas as valid for discussion, no matter how offbeat. Hell, I am a non-theist, and one of the favorite speakers of our Minyan.

                      The Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson is well known to most Jews - he's kind of our version of Pat Robertson, to give it a perspective with which you could relate.

                      As far as the Tikunn Olam - The World to Come - it means many things to many people. Rabbi Maimonides defined it in spiritual terms, but I've heard many speak of it in more geo-political terms. Our community defines Tikkun Olam in secular terms. We are all involved in many charities and social causes within our communities. In this way, many feel, we can prepare for the World to Come. Not so that a messiah can come (we really don't believe we need a king anymore), but so that G-d will allow us to evolve into the New World (Tikkun Olam).

                      This will probably be all I will say about this, since, as a non-theist, I am not supposed to be posting in this side. I just thought there were far too many misrepresentations for me to let it slide. I am somewhat protective of my peeps.

                      My apologies to the moderators.

                      NORM
                      When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land. - Bishop Desmond Tutu

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Hi Norm,

                        I've never seen more misrepresentation of my ancestral faith than within this thread!
                        Is it fair to call it your ancestral faith when you don't believe in God? Wouldn't it be more fair to call it the ancestral faith of those who, sharing your ancestry, actually believe in what that ancestry is really about: God?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by NormATive View Post
                          CLEARLY, that is the case. I've never seen more misrepresentation of my ancestral faith than within this thread!



                          When I attend Shul, it is at a Reformed community, so my response will be from that perspective.

                          Here goes: we don't really give it a moment's thought. After the Shoah, we realized that waiting around for a messiah was a fool's game. As Hillel said: “If I am not for myself, then who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now, when?” And, the great Rabbi said that BEFORE the time of Jesus. We have been evolving for quite some time, now.

                          As for all this about the Hasidim's bizzaro claims of some kind of trinitarian views within Judaism. Well, you should know that we Jews accept all ideas as valid for discussion, no matter how offbeat. Hell, I am a non-theist, and one of the favorite speakers of our Minyan.

                          As far as the Tikunn Olam - The World to Come - it means many things to many people. Rabbi Maimonides defined it in spiritual terms, but I've heard many speak of it in more geo-political terms. Our community defines Tikkun Olam in secular terms. We are all involved in many charities and social causes within our communities. In this way, many feel, we can prepare for the World to Come. Not so that a messiah can come (we really don't believe we need a king anymore), but so that G-d will allow us to evolve into the New World (Tikkun Olam).

                          This will probably be all I will say about this, since, as a non-theist, I am not supposed to be posting in this side. I just thought there were far too many misrepresentations for me to let it slide. I am somewhat protective of my peeps.

                          My apologies to the moderators.

                          NORM
                          Norm

                          As long as you consider yourself a Jew, as well as Buddhists in Comparative Religion. I believe non-theists in those beliefs are allowed in these instances. One problem with modern Judaism is that agnostics and atheists of many versions are too common to ban them from this section. I respect your views, and would miss them if you did not post in this section.

                          It may be the case that the moderator could be asked.

                          The Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson is well known to most Jews - he's kind of our version of Pat Robertson, to give it a perspective with which you could relate.
                          Agreed!!!!
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment

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