Announcement

Collapse

Judaism Guidelines

Theists only.

Shalom!


This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to the world religion of Judaism in general and also its relationship to Christianity. This forum is generally for theists only. Non-theists (eg, atheistic Jews) may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.

Non-theists are welcome to discuss and debate issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Why should I believe in Jesus and the NT?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Why should I believe in Jesus and the NT?

    The thread title is the question for this thread. Why should I believe in Jesus and the NT? From the Jewish Standpoint there really is no reason to believe in Jesus in any capacity. Judaism has a very developed theological system with our Mesorah covering virtually every aspect of the Jewish Life and beliefs.

    I'm really looking for an open discussion with substantiated reasons concerning why I should believe in Jesus and the NT.

    Shalom,

    Avraham Ibn Ezra.
    אברהם אבן עזרא

    Avraham Ibn Ezra

  • #2
    Well...I can sit here all day and tell you until I'm blue in the face why I think you should. But unless you really and truly wish to know him, and let him love you;

    You'll never really understand exactly what I'd be speaking of.
    A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
    George Bernard Shaw

    Comment


    • #3
      Shalom, Avraham. Thank you for your question.

      If I were a Jew and understood the Old Testament, especially the prophet Isaiah, but including all of the writings of the prophets, I would have no choice but to believe in Jesus as the Messiah, because He fulfills EVERY prophecy made about the Messiah in the OT. Except for those still future prophecies about the kingdom yet to be fulfilled.



      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

      Comment


      • #4
        Also, I should add this, I understand that in Judaism, the goal is to seek to know and to serve God, and to give to others as God has generously given to the Jewish People. Please correct me if I'm wrong. My interest is, in Judaism do you seek to Love God more Deeply and do you seek out his Love daily for you in your life?
        A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
        George Bernard Shaw

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Avraham Ibn Ezra View Post
          The thread title is the question for this thread. Why should I believe in Jesus and the NT? From the Jewish Standpoint there really is no reason to believe in Jesus in any capacity. Judaism has a very developed theological system with our Mesorah covering virtually every aspect of the Jewish Life and beliefs.

          I'm really looking for an open discussion with substantiated reasons concerning why I should believe in Jesus and the NT.

          Shalom,

          Avraham Ibn Ezra.
          Peace. If I were Jewish, I would want to know more about this period in the history of my people. I'd want to know more about the Judaisms of this time, and to find out how a sect within Judaism grew to become such a malevolent force of oppression and death against my people. What went wrong, was this what was intended from the beginning? Who was this man from Galilee? Was he a Jew? An Israelite? Was he misunderstood? Was he a prophet? Was he a false prophet? Did he deserve to be put to death? Is any part of his teaching worthwhile? I would do this carefully, cautiously, and prayerfully, and be open to discovering a deeper walk with God, if Jesus has anything worthwhile to say to your life. Some Jews discover a fellow Jew, from a different time, but with a profound teaching about our relationship with each other and with God that is very profound, very Jewish, and worth exploring further.
          βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
          ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

          אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

          Comment


          • #6
            I would not recommend a Jew become a Christian based on the New Testament any more then I would recommend someone becoming a Jew based on the Old Testament. I recommend a believer in any of the ancient religions to try to understand God in terms of the universal Revelation for all humanity throughout our human journey including Zoroastrian, Hindu, Buddhism, Islam, Taoism and all the Spirtual wisdom in all cultures. I believe the relationship between humanity and God is universal as the spiritual evolution of our physical existence including the possibility of other worlds as described in the Baha'i Faith. The alternative of a Source sometimes called God(s) as selecting only one people as 'chosen' over all others is illogical and unreasonable. The alternative is of course is atheism where the universal nature of humanity and all physical existence is simply the natural way of our existence.
            Last edited by shunyadragon; 06-05-2014, 12:08 PM.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mossrose View Post
              Shalom, Avraham. Thank you for your question.

              If I were a Jew and understood the Old Testament, especially the prophet Isaiah, but including all of the writings of the prophets, I would have no choice but to believe in Jesus as the Messiah, because He fulfills EVERY prophecy made about the Messiah in the OT. Except for those still future prophecies about the kingdom yet to be fulfilled.

              I understand that Christians feel that he fulfilled certain "prophecies" and that is all fine an dandy. Is the fulfillment of certain "Prophecies" the only reason I should believe in Jesus and the NT?
              אברהם אבן עזרא

              Avraham Ibn Ezra

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
                Also, I should add this, I understand that in Judaism, the goal is to seek to know and to serve God, and to give to others as God has generously given to the Jewish People. Please correct me if I'm wrong. My interest is, in Judaism do you seek to Love God more Deeply and do you seek out his Love daily for you in your life?
                By observing G-d's Torah and doing His Mitzvot we seek out G-d and know what G-d desires of us. As far as loving G-d and how I feel read Deuteronomy 6:5-9.
                אברהם אבן עזרא

                Avraham Ibn Ezra

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Avraham Ibn Ezra View Post
                  I understand that Christians feel that he fulfilled certain "prophecies" and that is all fine an dandy. Is the fulfillment of certain "Prophecies" the only reason I should believe in Jesus and the NT?
                  What do you think would be a reason for you to believe in Jesus and the NT?


                  Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                    Was he a Jew?
                    Yes

                    An Israelite?
                    All Jews are Israelites

                    Was he misunderstood?
                    Probably

                    Was he a prophet?
                    Doubtful

                    Was he a false prophet?
                    don't know

                    Did he deserve to be put to death?
                    I dont care to speculate. Apparently Pilate thought so and so did the high priest and his chief guards of the temple. Notice the Pharisees are missing from this equation.

                    Is any part of his teaching worthwhile?
                    From what I can tell it wasn't anything new. Most of his teachings are straight from his Pharisaic teachers and contemporaries

                    I would do this carefully, cautiously, and prayerfully, and be open to discovering a deeper walk with God,
                    If you want a deeper meaning go for Kabbalah. it has enough Shutyot to fill a shipyard.

                    Some Jews discover a fellow Jew, from a different time, but with a profound teaching about our relationship with each other and with God that is very profound, very Jewish, and worth exploring further.
                    What do you mean by "discover?"
                    אברהם אבן עזרא

                    Avraham Ibn Ezra

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                      What do you think would be a reason for you to believe in Jesus and the NT?
                      To me, as far as my reading of the events of Jesus' life and the events in the NT there really isn't one. I stated in the opener "Judaism has a very developed theological system with our Mesorah covering virtually every aspect of the Jewish Life and beliefs."

                      I am trying to see if there is a reason, from y'all why I should given my opening statement.
                      אברהם אבן עזרא

                      Avraham Ibn Ezra

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Avraham Ibn Ezra View Post
                        To me, as far as my reading of the events of Jesus' life and the events in the NT there really isn't one. I stated in the opener "Judaism has a very developed theological system with our Mesorah covering virtually every aspect of the Jewish Life and beliefs."

                        I am trying to see if there is a reason, from y'all why I should given my opening statement.
                        You should believe in Him because God raised him from the dead, vindicating Him and His claims of being the Son of God and the Messiah.
                        ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Avraham Ibn Ezra View Post
                          To me, as far as my reading of the events of Jesus' life and the events in the NT there really isn't one. I stated in the opener "Judaism has a very developed theological system with our Mesorah covering virtually every aspect of the Jewish Life and beliefs."

                          I am trying to see if there is a reason, from y'all why I should given my opening statement.
                          Well, there isn't much, really, anybody can say to give you a reason, beyond the words of the books themselves. If you are not desirous of reading the NT to find out for yourself, no one will be able to convince you. If you have read the NT and can think of no reason to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, then nobody will be able to give you a reason to convince you.

                          I must add, however, that your statement that Jesus didn't say much different from what His rabbis taught is in error. Jesus totally obliterated the Mosaic and Abrahamic covenants, and He obliterated the Pharisees' works-based and oppressive religion. So, the things He said were new and "anti-establishment", if I may say so. That is why the Pharisees continually tried to kill him, and they finally succeeded.

                          But only in God's timing, not theirs.

                          I pray you will recognize Jesus as your Saviour and that you will come into a relationship with Him.


                          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Avraham Ibn Ezra View Post
                            All Jews are Israelites
                            Yes, of course, but not all Israelites are Judeans, depending upon the usage of the word Ἰουδαῖος, ἀνὴρ ἐξ Ιουδα, etc.

                            Originally posted by Avraham Ibn Ezra View Post
                            I dont care to speculate. Apparently Pilate thought so and so did the high priest and his chief guards of the temple. Notice the Pharisees are missing from this equation.
                            If you accept a role of the high priest and the temple soldiers, how can you be so sure that there were no pharisees involved from the local Jerusalem sanhedrin?

                            Originally posted by Avraham Ibn Ezra View Post
                            From what I can tell it wasn't anything new. Most of his teachings are straight from his Pharisaic teachers and contemporaries
                            I agree, for the most part, but he does seem to combine some things in surprising ways, and the (mostly) later massive outreach to the Gentiles among his followers is striking. This is what seems most distinctive to me, and also where I think things went wrong for the most part between the various groups.

                            Originally posted by Avraham Ibn Ezra View Post
                            If you want a deeper meaning go for Kabbalah. it has enough Shutyot to fill a shipyard.
                            I think you mean shtuyot (שטויות), correct? Why would I want that?

                            Originally posted by Avraham Ibn Ezra View Post
                            What do you mean by "discover?"
                            For some, what is learned may be surprising, a discovery in that sense. I like to be open to surprises, to learning new things.
                            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes, of course, but not all Israelites are Judeans
                              Or rather not all, Israelites were Judai.

                              Comment

                              widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                              Working...
                              X