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Jesus was not the messiah

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  • #46
    Originally posted by robrecht View Post
    What does "Me f.e." mean?
    "for example"
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
      It is a discussion with "the knife on the throat".

      After 1 John 2:22, Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
      I don't consider simple questions about my beliefs to be unfriendly. The only time I would consider it unfriendly is if the inquiry were disingenuous or the question itself is a loaded question meant to be disingenuous.
      אברהם אבן עזרא

      Avraham Ibn Ezra

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      • #48
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        Not relevant. You are free to have friendly conversations elsewhere on the site.
        Geert is a heretical Christian but a Christian nonetheless. Why are you not allowing him to post in Christianity 201? Typical religious intolerance. Welcome to 1984 ...BC.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          1) That doesn't matter - Jesus was a descendant of David's.

          2) I was answering his specific issue - which was Jesus' career path which is a non-issue for human succession.
          1) Prove it.

          2) You can't be a messianic king of a future golden age if you're not a king and your life and death do not correspond with any known golden age.

          Comment


          • #50
            Do you even know what 'rules' are? Chr 201 is for orthodox Christians to discuss issues within Christianity. Unorthodox theology is where heretical and heterodox believers can discuss their views. And he's free to start his own thread on the exact same topic in UT if he really wants to discuss something that't in an area he isn't allowed in.

            Incidentally, you aren't allowed in Chr 201, either. Or the Sorority. Most theists are barred from Naturalism 101 (I suppose there could be a theistic naturalist but darned if I know how). And a thread starter can request that those not ordinarily allowed in an area be allowed in that particular thread.

            If you really, really want to answer in a thread in an area your not normally allowed in, you can pm the appropriate mod and ask for permission to post. As long as you aren't acting like a jerk and it's okay with the thread starter, it's usually granted.

            Next time, find out what's what before spouting off ignorantly.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Trekkie View Post
              1) Prove it.

              2) You can't be a messianic king of a future golden age if you're not a king and your life and death do not correspond with any known golden age.
              1) See Matthew and Luke.

              2) Sure you (general) can. There's no such rule. Jesus isn't King Arthur - and Israel isn't Camelot. You've (personal) have been reading too many bad historical fiction novels.
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

              Quill Sword

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Trekkie View Post
                Geert is a heretical Christian but a Christian nonetheless. Why are you not allowing him to post in Christianity 201? Typical religious intolerance. Welcome to 1984 ...BC.
                Geert thinks he's the messiah come again (though he's hiding under a pseudonym).
                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                sigpic
                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                  1) See Matthew and Luke.
                  Matthew 1:15-16, and Eliud the father of Eleazar, and Eleazar the father of Matthan, and Matthan the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.

                  It doesn't say "and Jospeh (the husband of Mary) the father of Jesus, etc.", for good reason, since he wasn't.

                  Luke 3:23, Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son as was supposed of Joseph

                  Matthew 22:
                  41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, 42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” 43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,

                  44 “‘The Lord said to my master,
                  “Sit at my right hand,
                  until I put your enemies under your feet”’?

                  45 If then David calls him master, how is he his son?” 46 And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions.

                  The clue of which?
                  Surely not that he was fathered by a descendant of David.

                  I do think he was fathered by a Roman soldier, i.e. "a son of Esau" -- and that's why Joseph, the husband of Mary, is called "son of Jacob".

                  See:
                  http://www.bnti.us/bnti_blog/

                  Esau, in contrast, is portrayed as going about his evil business as usual, uninvolved, as it were, in his family's bereavement: 'Esau came in from the field' after he committed five crimes on that very day:


                  1. He violated a betrothed maiden.

                  2. He committed murder.

                  3. He denied God.

                  4. He denied the resurrection of the dead.

                  5. He spurned the birthright. See Artscroll Bereisheit 25

                  But that doesn't take away that he could be, or even was, the Messiah:

                  John 19:36 “My kingdom is not of this world."

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                    Geert thinks he's the messiah come again (though he's hiding under a pseudonym).
                    you are projecting your own crime(s).

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                      Do you even know what 'rules' are? Chr 201 is for orthodox Christians to discuss issues within Christianity. Unorthodox theology is where heretical and heterodox believers can discuss their views. And he's free to start his own thread on the exact same topic in UT if he really wants to discuss something that't in an area he isn't allowed in.

                      Incidentally, you aren't allowed in Chr 201, either. Or the Sorority. Most theists are barred from Naturalism 101 (I suppose there could be a theistic naturalist but darned if I know how). And a thread starter can request that those not ordinarily allowed in an area be allowed in that particular thread.

                      If you really, really want to answer in a thread in an area your not normally allowed in, you can pm the appropriate mod and ask for permission to post. As long as you aren't acting like a jerk and it's okay with the thread starter, it's usually granted.

                      Next time, find out what's what before spouting off ignorantly.
                      The term "orthodox" is derived from Greek "orthos" = straigth, upright, direct, and "dokimadzo" = test, examine, interpret, discern, discover, approve, prove, demonsrtrate.

                      cf. Mark 8:31,

                      Καὶ ἤρξατο διδάσκειν αὐτοὺς ὅτι δεῖ τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου πολλὰ παθεῖν καὶ ἀποδοκιμασθῆναι ὑπὸ τῶν πρεσβυτέρων καὶ τῶν ἀρχιερέων καὶ τῶν γραμματέων καὶ ἀποκτανθῆναι καὶ μετὰ τρεῖς ἡμέρας ἀναστῆναι:

                      And he began tot teach them that the son of man has to suffer many things and be disapproved by the so called orthodox and be killed and stand up again after three days.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
                        The term "orthodox" is derived from Greek "orthos" = straigth, upright, direct, and "dokimadzo" = test, examine, interpret, discern, discover, approve, prove, demonsrtrate.

                        cf. Mark 8:31,

                        Καὶ ἤρξατο διδάσκειν αὐτοὺς ὅτι δεῖ τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου πολλὰ παθεῖν καὶ ἀποδοκιμασθῆναι ὑπὸ τῶν πρεσβυτέρων καὶ τῶν ἀρχιερέων καὶ τῶν γραμματέων καὶ ἀποκτανθῆναι καὶ μετὰ τρεῖς ἡμέρας ἀναστῆναι:

                        And he began tot teach them that the son of man has to suffer many things and be disapproved by the so called orthodox and be killed and stand up again after three days.

                        Given your last, totally ridiculous post I'm not surprised you managed to miss this point, too.

                        But you did prove you belong in Unorthodox Theology!
                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                        Quill Sword

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                          Given your last, totally ridiculous post I'm not surprised you managed to miss this point, too.

                          But you did prove you belong in Unorthodox Theology!
                          Do you think Jesus was orthodox?

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                          • #58
                            For His time? Nope. For the modern church? He's the head - He's the standard.


                            Quit pretending you don't know what we're talking about.
                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Quill Sword

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Geert van den Bos View Post
                              The term "orthodox" is derived from Greek "orthos" = straigth, upright, direct, and "dokimadzo" = test, examine, interpret, discern, discover, approve, prove, demonsrtrate.
                              No it's not.

                              Originally posted by Merriam Webster
                              Middle English orthodoxe, from Middle French or Late Latin; Middle French orthodoxe, from Late Latin orthodoxus, from Late Greek orthodoxos, from Greek orth- + doxa opinion
                              from the Online Etymology Dictionary:
                              orthodox (adj.) Look up orthodox at Dictionary.com
                              mid-15c., of opinions, faith, from Late Latin orthodoxus, from Greek orthodoxos "having the right opinion," from orthos "right, true, straight" (see ortho-) + doxa "opinion, praise," from dokein "to seem," from PIE root *dek- "to take, accept" (see decent).
                              (and in response to your other post: Yes, "One Bad Pig" is a pseudonym; on the other hand, I don't have a website under a different name where I expound unique theological opinions that just so happen to match what I expound here, like you do.)
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                                For His time? Nope. For the modern church? He's the head - He's the standard.


                                Quit pretending you don't know what we're talking about.
                                If Jesus wasn't orthodox why should Christians be?

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