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Quran might predate Muhammad?

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  • Originally posted by siam View Post
    The Quran is considered "Divine speech" (by Muslims). Before it is a written text, it is an oral/audio persuasion and guidance. The Audience is primarily the polytheists of the area who have not received any scripture before. When ethical/moral lessons are to be taught to people of all ages, particularly in an oral background---storytelling is the best method to use. The Quran uses stories from a wide range of genres---but the Quranic stories have a unique composition and style. The ethico-moral lessons are also consistent and wholistic in their relevance to Tawheed (Unity---the most central theme of the Quranic worldview/paradigm).

    Christians often read the Quran with their Bible version of stories in mind---and so, often miss the point. For example, Daniel Petersen, a Mormon scholar, once explained that when he read a certain surah in Arabic, (Surah 114) he could hear the "sss" rhyming sound at the end of the verses---and he linked it to the talking snake in the Adam and Eve story. As a Muslim, I would never have made that sort of connection partly because that is not what the words mean and also because there is no talking snake in the Quranic story of Adam.

    As the story of the Queen of Sheba indicated---if one approaches the Quran with a dogmatic mind---that they know all therefore there is nothing more to know....the Quran will not show its wisdom. If they approach it with humility and a heart filled with gratefulness to God....there may be much wisdom found....

    A Muslim philosopher, Al Gazzali said---"to doubt is to find Truth---Those who do not have doubt cannot think and those who cannot think, cannot find Truth". The search for knowledge must begin with a question and questions arise out of a curiosity "to know"---to know something we do not know.

    So, one can even consider the use of familiar stories as a test of the heart/intention. A thinking person will see the wisdom and guidance, but one who approaches these stories with preconceived ideas and assumptions may miss much....
    That is why the Shahada (creed) begins with a negation---there is no God---so that we first leave all our preconceptions of the Divine/Divinities and start fresh.
    I think there is a way to get a message across without using stories that are not historical. The problem is that the Qur'an uses stories that are not historical showing the author of the Qur'an thought they were historical.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
      1) I think there is a way to get a message across without using stories that are not historical.
      2) The problem is that the Qur'an uses stories that are not historical showing the author of the Qur'an thought they were historical.
      1) There are many ways to get a message across and both fiction and non-fiction are among the many ways to communicate.
      2) How are the two things related? ---why does the use of "stories" relate to the author thinking they are historical? The Quran is not a history textbook...its purpose is wisdom teaching.....so I fail to see the connection.....

      In the Queen of Sheba story, there is an anectode of ants having a conversation---it is a scientific fact that ants do communicate with each other, but that is besides the point, because the Quran is not a science textbook....
      It would be an error to assume that simply because some instances in the Quranic stories align (factual) with history or science ---that the Quran is a book of history or a book of science...

      As I understand it, "historicity" may be important for the NT as Christians seem to emphasize "prophesy" (fortune-telling)?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by siam View Post

        As I understand it, "historicity" may be important for the NT as Christians seem to emphasize "prophesy" (fortune-telling)?
        So are you arguing a prophet is a fortune teller?

        The correct Christian view of prophecy is that of revelation, speaking for God. While distinctions can be made between, prophecy, revelation, knowledge and teaching. In the broad sense they are interrelated. The Apostle Peter call the written revelations ". . . a more sure word of prophecy . . . " 2 Peter 1:16-21. In the Revelation of Jesus Christ it is asserted, ". . . for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. . . ." Revelation 19:10. Jesus is cited to have said, ". . . that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. . . ." Luke 24:44. Moses wrote what God told him to write about the Prophet Jesus, ". . . I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. . . ." Deuteronomy 18:18. And you know Jesus' human birth was by means of God's spoken word and not by a human father. So that the Prophet Jesus is a direct revelation from God unlike any other prophet.
        Last edited by 37818; 10-04-2017, 09:19 AM.
        . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          So are you arguing a prophet is a fortune teller?

          The correct Christian view of prophecy is that of revelation, speaking for God. While distinctions can be made between, prophecy, revelation, knowledge and teaching. In the broad sense they are interrelated. The Apostle Peter call the written revelations ". . . a more sure word of prophecy . . . " 2 Peter 1:16-21. In the Revelation of Jesus Christ it is asserted, ". . . for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. . . ." Revelation 19:10. Jesus is cited to have said, ". . . that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. . . ." Luke 24:44. Moses wrote what God told him to write about the Prophet Jesus, ". . . I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. . . ." Deuteronomy 18:18. And you know Jesus' human birth was by means of God's spoken word and not by a human father. So that the Prophet Jesus is a direct revelation from God unlike any other prophet.
          so, in the Christian view, "all things must be fulfilled" means that there is a prediction (foretelling) and this comes true and this is assumed as "prophesy"?...is this correct?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by siam View Post
            so, in the Christian view, "all things must be fulfilled" means that there is a prediction (foretelling) and this comes true and this is assumed as "prophesy"?...is this correct?
            Yes, in the specific sense. And in specifics there are things yet to be fulfilled (like the final judgment). In a broad sense all the word of God spoken or written to man is prophecy - being revelation. Revelations are revealings, such as hidden truths being made known. In my view some Christians confuse the words of knowledge for a prophecy - a revealing or a foretelling. (Such as Jesus tells woman about her having 5 husbands, John 4:17-19. And the Apostle Peter telling a man that God is going to heal him, Acts 3:2-9.)
            Last edited by 37818; 10-05-2017, 09:19 AM.
            . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

            Comment


            • I see that two of my links to Siam did not go through.

              Here are all three:

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raw-SB7AjMo

              http://www.answering-islam.org/Books...rces/index.htm

              http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-kora...s-dr-morey.htm

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                Great post!!

                Comment

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