Originally posted by siam
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This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to Islam. This forum is generally for theists only, and is not the area for debate between atheists and theists. Non-theist may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.
Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
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Ramadan
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That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by siam View PostI absolutely deny it.
Perhaps I can get through to you another way............(If not, I will give up )
If I were to make this statement....would you agree to it....?....
America ALONE among today's modern nations has murder and terrorism as an acceptable "tool" of "evangelism".
(the ideology they would be "evangelizing" would be Manifest Destiny and American exceptionalism)
Examples of terrorism and murder-------
Drone terrorism---where innocent men women and children are murdered---used in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Iraq, Somalia and perhaps in the Philippines.
Extraordinary renditions---Foreign civilians are kidnapped off the streets and tortured at "Black Sites", CIA run prisons
Covert ops, black ops, CIA operations----were Armed Americans interfere (including assassinations) in foreign territories/nations to destabilize and exploit. example, South America.
Wars of Aggression---were Americans attack another country on false pretenses. examples....Iraq, Afghanistan.
...and so forth.......
When we are deluded we can make statements based on false premises. Such statements would be false, untruthful, wrong, incorrect.....need I go on....?.....That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by siam View PostWhen we are deluded we can make statements based on false premises.
Such statements would be false, untruthful, wrong, incorrect.....need I go on....?.....The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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The Golden Rule to Becoming Better People Through Religious Practices
By Ameena Jandali and Dr. Henry Millstein
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/altmusl...ous-practices/
As we near the end of Ramadan, it is appropriate to reflect on the purpose of this sacred month. Throughout the month, Muslims have engaged in a number of special spiritual practices, including fasting, supererogatory prayers and the reading of the Quran. All of these actions are aimed at achieving ihsan, an Arabic term that means simultaneously the perfecting of one’s character, the deepening of one’s relationship with God and the perfecting of good conduct towards fellow human beings.
While Muslims, like other religious practitioners, are often painstakingly meticulous in their focus on and adherence to the specific rituals and acts of worship that are meant to lead to ihsan, it is often the actualization of ihsan where human beings fall short, thereby missing one of the most important purposes of our religious endeavors. Whether something as mundane as overlooking the needs of others when serving oneself at a Ramadan dinner, to the worst example of contravening ihsan through violence against others — this is the pivotal issue for religious communities today and the reason that religious practitioners often have a bad reputation in an increasingly secular world.
Central to ihsan is the readiness to treat others as you want them to treat you, the ethic expressed by various forms of the “Golden Rule” in virtually all religious traditions. The classic Western expression of this “ethic of reciprocity,” as it is called, is found in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke (7:12 and 6:31 respectively): “Do to others as you would have them do to you.”
The Jewish tradition expresses a similar idea in negative form: “That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. (Talmud Shabbat 31a)” This saying is attributed to the great sage Hillel, a contemporary of Jesus, who reportedly uttered it when a Gentile offered to convert to Judaism if Hillel could teach him the whole Torah while standing on one foot.
The most pointed Muslim expression of the ethic of reciprocity is found in a hadith or, a saying of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh): “Not one of you is a believer until he wishes for his brother/sister what he wishes for himself. (An-Nawawi 13)” This version of the Golden Rule adds depth to the Christian and Jewish versions; while the latter refer solely to outward behavior, the Muslim version speaks to an inward dimension: The believer must not only do what the other wants but must desire what the other desires. Implied here is the idea that right actions must spring from right character. In other words, this saying speaks directly to the concept of ihsan that is central to the observance of Ramadan and indeed to the whole endeavor of Muslim spirituality.
This connection between inner character and outward behavior is, of course, also a mainstay of Jewish and Christian traditions. In rabbinic texts, Rabbi Akiva, agreeing with Hillel that the commandment of love of neighbor (Leviticus 19:8) is the foundation of the Torah, grounds the commandment in the common nature that all human beings share from Adam. In other words, it is the inner realization of our shared human nature that impels us to love of neighbor (a term the rabbis interpreted to mean all humanity, including foreigners.) In Christianity, Jesus’ insistence on inner righteousness is central to his message: “Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. (Matthew 12:34)”
Hindu tradition likewise affirms the bond between inner character and the observance of the Golden Rule. In the great Indian epic the Mahabharata, the wise minister Vidura advises his king as follows: “Listening to wise scriptures, austerity, sacrifice, respectful faith, social welfare, forgiveness, purity of intent, compassion, truth and self-control — are the ten wealths of character… Hence, (keeping these in mind), by self-control and by making dharma (right conduct) your main focus, treat others as you treat yourself. (Shanti-parva 167.9)”
A classic Buddhist expression of the ethic of reciprocity also affirms the connection between inner and outer: “Look where you will, there is nothing dearer to man than himself; therefore, as it is the same thing that is dear to you and to others, hurt not others with what pains yourself. (Udanavarga 5:18)” Here, the observance of the Golden Rule springs from the inner realization of one’s commonality with fellow human beings — echoing the Muslim and Jewish view that humanity’s common descent from Adam is the root of the commandment of love.
In all these traditions, the Golden Rule, the touchstone of human character, rests on the harmony of inner spirit and outward behavior; and the imperative of love and compassion is a major motivation for the inward cultivation of the spirit. All our traditions affirm that without that inward cultivation—the fundamental goal of all religions—our behavior towards others will always ring hollow—and even worse, directly contravene our religious teachings. This cultivation of spirit, while not exclusive to religion, is nonetheless one of religion’s primary gifts to humankind. In this season, sacred to the second-largest religious community in the world, people of all faiths have the obligation to remind firstly themselves, and secondly others, of religion’s role in promoting a spirit and practice of true brotherly/sisterly love, compassion and harmony.
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Originally posted by siam View PostThe Golden Rule to Becoming Better People Through Religious Practices.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThou shalt not strap on a suicide vest and murder a bunch of innocent people.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThou shalt not strap on a suicide vest and murder a bunch of innocent people.
From the Quran
"And do not take any human being’s life – [the life] which God has willed to be sacred – otherwise than in [the pursuit] of justice…" (17:33)
"And do not kill yourselves, for God has been merciful to you." (4:29)
"If it had been your Lord’s will, they all would have believed – all who are on earth. Will you, then, compel the people, against their will, to believe?" (10:99)
"Unto every one of you have We appointed a [different] law and way of life. And if God had so willed, He could surely have made you all one single community: but [He willed it otherwise] in order to test you by means of what He has vouchsafed unto you…" (5:48)
It is not required of thee (O Messenger), to set them on the right path, but God sets on the right path whom He pleases. (2:272)
from:http://www.chicagonow.com/midwestern...ogger-go-free/
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostOr tell Christians in Iraq that they must convert, pay a high tax, or die by the sword...
The Christians who have moved out are being given refuge by other Iraqi's and people in the region.
Human beings are good and bad and here are examples of good---
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...m_hp_ref=islam
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5587742.html
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Ramadan is a special time, but there is only so much spirituality one can stomach (especially on an empty stomach) so, here is a bit of humor.
How Ramadan Helped Make Me A Soccer Fan
By Hesham Hassaballa, July 8, 2014 at 11:57 am
http://www.chicagonow.com/midwestern...-a-soccer-fan/
In the Name of God: the Infinitely Merciful and Compassionate Beloved Lord
Growing up, I never really liked soccer. I had played it at the age of nine for one year and hated the experience (probably because I was so bad at it). So, when the World Cup started, I had an aloof interest but was never really into the tournament. That is, until Ramadan started.
Ramadan, the ninth Islamic month during which Muslims (including this one) forgo food and drink from dawn until sunset, started on June 28. That happened to be the very same day the "knockout round" of the World Cup began. So, to help pass the time - and there's a lot of it to pass - I started watching each game. And I really liked what I saw.
I didn't realize how great international soccer can be, even though the scores are much lower than that to which we Americans are accustomed. There is a lot of amazing athletic ability, intrigue, strategy, and sheer excitement. Of course, I was rooting for the USA and was very saddened when they lost to Belgium. But, even after our guys went home, I continued to watch the other matches, and it was a truly enjoyable experience.
Indeed, I should have been reading scripture and been engaged in deep spiritual reflection since this is, after all, Ramadan. But, the World Cup only comes around once every four years, and the games this year have been, quite honestly, too good to pass up. I now truly can't wait to see the Brazil-Germany game later this afternoon, and I'm looking forward to watching the Netherlands take on Argentina.
I'm beginning to learn various players' names; I've asked friends and family about the various rules of international soccer and the different leagues around the world. I am beginning to look forward to watching the games in the Premier League and other leagues across Europe. I even watched a Chicago Fire game the other day on TV (although, I must admit, it wasn't as exciting). Moreover, I really like the fact that I can watch an entire half commercial free, and this makes the game all the more enjoyable. In fact, I wish more American sports games on TV had the same set up.
All this because the World Cup happened to be during Ramadan in Summer, when I can't eat for a very, very, very long time. Again, ideally, I should have spent all those hours - watching the amazing goals and penalty kicks, blocks and extra time - reading scripture and praying to God. That's what Ramadan is truly all about: self-reflection and spiritual renewal. But, I couldn't help myself. The games were truly awesome. I pray the Lord forgives me for all those hours spent watching soccer when I should have been worshiping.
But I hope and pray it will ultimately be a good thing, especially if it gets me more excited about playing soccer with my kids, two of whom are slated to play this fall. What's more, perhaps the next time someone walks up to me - as I am wearing my Arsenals jersey - and says, "Tough season for the Gunners, man!" I will have some inkling as to what in God's Most Holy Name he is talking about.
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Originally posted by siam View PostAs a Muslim and as a human being I agree.
From the Quran
"And do not take any human being’s life – [the life] which God has willed to be sacred – otherwise than in [the pursuit] of justice…" (17:33)
"And do not kill yourselves, for God has been merciful to you." (4:29)
"If it had been your Lord’s will, they all would have believed – all who are on earth. Will you, then, compel the people, against their will, to believe?" (10:99)
"Unto every one of you have We appointed a [different] law and way of life. And if God had so willed, He could surely have made you all one single community: but [He willed it otherwise] in order to test you by means of what He has vouchsafed unto you…" (5:48)
It is not required of thee (O Messenger), to set them on the right path, but God sets on the right path whom He pleases. (2:272)
from:http://www.chicagonow.com/midwestern...ogger-go-free/
What a crazy religion.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by siam View PostThe Christians who have moved out are being given refuge by other Iraqi's and people in the region.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by siam View PostThe Christians who have moved out are being given refuge by other Iraqi's and people in the region.
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostDo you have any support for this statement?
1)http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/21/wo...lee-mosul.html
"The gathering on Sunday at St. George Chaldean Church, built in 1964 and situated in a Shiite Muslim neighborhood, was as much about Iraqi solidarity as it was a gesture of condemnation for the persecution of Christians. In many ways Iraq’s struggle today is the same as it has been since the country was founded nearly a century ago, at the end of World War I: how to establish a national identity larger than a particular faith or ethnicity.
In the pews Muslims and Christians alike held signs that read, “I’m Iraqi. I’m Christian.” Muhammad Aga, who organized the event over Facebook, spoke, and listed Iraq’s many narrower identities: Christians, Arabs, Kurds, Shabaks, Turkmen, Yazidis, Sunnis and Shiites. “All of those people who carry Iraqi identity,” he said.
The church’s patriarch, Louis Raphael Sako, said, “I carry every Iraqi in my heart.”
2)http://www.juancole.com/2014/07/chri...inorities.html
"Mosul’s fleeing Christians have largely gone to Dohuk or Irbil in Kurdistan, and Kurdish officials have urged Kurds to give them refuge. Shiite shrines and institutions in the holy cities of Najaf and Karbala have also offered to shelter the displaced Christians. Tens of thousands of Iraqi Christians had earlier gone to Syria and Lebanon, though it seems likely that they will try to get to Europe.
Christians are not the only group at risk. There are many small unorthodox Shiite communities in northern Iraq, and they are recipients of the same threats being directed against the Christians. There are also Mandaean Gnostics. In the period of the American occupation, the predecessors of IS such as al-Qaeda in Mesopotamia, had routinely target Christians and heterodox Shiites for bombings and attacks.
Likewise, women are suffering, since the radical fundamentalists want to impose a kind of house arrest (“seclusion”) on them. On Sunday, IS executed a woman in their stronghold of Raqqa in Syria by stoning her for alleged adultery."
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Originally posted by siam View PostExamples of unity with Christians.....
Pretend all you want, your religion is rife with rape, murder, persecution, brutality and hate. Not to mention how your people treat women and young girls.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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