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What's up with Muhammad in saying all dogs should be killed?

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  • What's up with Muhammad in saying all dogs should be killed?

    What's up with Muhammad in saying all dogs should be killed?

    Thank you.

  • #2
    Source?
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • #3
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      Source?
      It's in several of the hadiths

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
        What's up with Muhammad in saying all dogs should be killed?

        Thank you.
        In his culture, dogs were not pets; they were more or less mere scavengers, and considered unclean.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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        • #5
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          In his culture, dogs were not pets; they were more or less mere scavengers, and considered unclean.
          Do you have a source that this was a cultural thing, and not something Mohammed instituted?

          Based on what I've read he declared this a rule after one of his wives had kept a puppy in the house, which had supposedly stopped Jibreel from delivering revelations that he had promised to give that night. The Sahih Hadith do have exceptions for dogs used in shepherding, hunting, and some other stuff. Unless they are black, then they are supposed to be a devil and thus killed.

          Sahih Muslim

          (2) Maimuna reported that one morning Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) was silent with grief. Maimuna said: Allah's Messenger, I find a change in your mood today. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Gabriel had promised me that he would meet me tonight, but he did not meet me. By Allah, he never broke his promises, and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) spent the day in this sad (mood). Then it occurred to him that there had been a puppy under their cot. He commanded and it was turned out. He then took some water in his hand and sprinkled it at that place. When it was evening Gabriel met him and he said to him: you promised me that you would meet me the previous night. He said: Yes, but we do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture. Then on that very morning he commanded the killing of the dogs until he announced that the dog kept for the orchards should also be killed, but he spared the dog meant for the protection of extensive fields (or big gardens). (Book #024, Hadith #5248)

          (1) A'isha reported that Gabriel (peace be upon him) made a promise with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to come at a definite hour; that hour came but he did not visit him. And there was in his hand (in the hand of Allah's Apostle) a staff. He threw it from his hand and said: Never has Allah or His messengers (angels) ever broken their promise. Then he cast a glance (and by chance) found a puppy under his cot and said: 'A'isha, when did this dog enter here? She said: BY Allah, I don't know He then commanded and it was turned out. Then Gabriel came and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to him: You promised me and I waited for you. but you did not come, whereupon he said: It was the dog in your house which prevented me (to come), for we (angels) do not enter a house in which there is a dog or a picture. (Book #024, Hadith #5246)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            In his culture, dogs were not pets; they were more or less mere scavengers, and considered unclean.
            viz. Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and whoever loves and makes a lie.

            As a child, I read this and took it completely literally and thought it meant all dogs go to hell.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              Source?
              From Bukhari Vol. 4, #540

              Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle ordered that the dogs should be killed.

              From Muslim #Number 055

              Ibn Mughaffal reported: The Messenger of Allah ordered killing of the dogs, and then said: What about them, i. e. about other dogs? and then granted concession (to keep) the dog for hunting and the dog for (the security) of the herd, and said: When the dog licks the utensil, wash it seven times, and rub it with earth the eighth time.

              From Muslim #3813

              Abu Zubair heard Jabir Abdullah saying: Allah's messenger ordered us to kill dogs and we carried out this order so much so that we also killed the dog roaming with a women from the desert. Then Allah's apostle forbade their killing. He said: "It is your duty to kill the jet-black (dog) having two spots (on the eyes) for it is a devil.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                In his culture, dogs were not pets; they were more or less mere scavengers, and considered unclean.
                At that point in time I'm not sure there were any cultures that regarded them as "pets."

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  At that point in time I'm not sure there were any cultures that regarded them as "pets."
                  Why just dogs? Muhammad thought he was a prophet. Could he not see the benefits in having a dog?

                  Perhaps Muhammad was frightened by a wolf and thought it was a dog?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                    Why just dogs? Muhammad thought he was a prophet. Could he not see the benefits in having a dog?

                    Perhaps Muhammad was frightened by a wolf and thought it was a dog?
                    I don't think dogs were regarded very highly anywhere in the Middle East but Muhammad took it a step further. A big step. Why? Maybe one recognized him for what he really was and peed on his leg

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      At that point in time I'm not sure there were any cultures that regarded them as "pets."
                      Maybe not in the way we do today, but there were similar things happening in the past. Pugs were treated like royalty in China going way back. Confucius may have mentioned them as far back as 551 B.C. It looks like there were basically bred to be a pet for high ranking Chinese, and were also given as gifts to the Japanese as well.

                      Mohammed's own declarations don't make much sense unless people were keeping them for purposes other than the handful said to be okay. Which were hunting, shepherding, and as guard dogs. In another Hadith he says keeping a dog for any other purpose took away rewards in heaven.

                      Bukhari Vol. 3, #515

                      Narrated Abu Huraira: "Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever keeps a dog, one Qirat of the reward of his good deeds is deducted daily, unless the dog is used for guarding a farm or cattle." Abu Huraira (in another narration) said from the Prophet, "unless it is used for guarding sheep or farms, or for hunting." Narrated Abu Hazim from Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A dog for guarding cattle or for hunting.""

                      Muslim Number 3815:

                      Ibn Umar reported Allah's Messenger as saying: He who keeps a dog other than that meant for watching the herd or for hunting loses every day out of his deeds equal to two qirat.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        I don't think dogs were regarded very highly anywhere in the Middle East but Muhammad took it a step further. A big step. Why? Maybe one recognized him for what he really was and peed on his leg
                        I read something a long time ago saying he was attacked by a black dog as a child. I think this was in one of the biographies about him, but it has been a while.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          At that point in time I'm not sure there were any cultures that regarded them as "pets."
                          There are some breeds that were bred to be companions, like lapdogs. Some writers in the ancient world described dogs being pampered by their owners
                          "Some people feel guilty about their anxieties and regard them as a defect of faith but they are afflictions, not sins. Like all afflictions, they are, if we can so take them, our share in the passion of Christ." - That Guy Everyone Quotes

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by hamster View Post
                            There are some breeds that were bred to be companions, like lapdogs. Some writers in the ancient world described dogs being pampered by their owners
                            FWIU lap dogs came a good deal later and the pampering was of favorite hunting dogs who weren't regarded as what we would consider pets.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              here is another opinion....

                              https://qz.com/india/1038116/the-mom...pure-and-evil/

                              "Dogs in Islam, as they are in Rabbinic Judaism, are conventionally thought of as ritually impure."

                              "According to several authoritative accounts of his life and teachings, Prophet Muhammad himself prayed in the presence of dogs. Many of his cousins and companions, the world’s first Muslims, raised young puppies. In the Mosque of the Prophet in Medina, the second holiest site in the world for Muslims after the Kaaba, dogs were regularly seen frolicking about during the prophet’s life and for centuries after as well."

                              ...Perhaps we Muslims need to revisit our history from time to time?.....maybe re-asses what is cultural from what is religious?.....

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