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A Superbly Flawed Quran..

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  • Christian3, and Rogue,

    siam is flooding (read: "running away" from) your requests with verses that are totally IRRELEVANT to the questions posed. At the same time, he is also running away from many questions that I for example, have posed and he tries to dismiss them as "intellectually restricting" or not "widening to his intellectual horizon". HOW SELECTIVE and Hypocritical.

    But all that is just selective hogwash and choosing to avoid answering -with relevance- the real issues we want answered from a missionary for islam and muhamed.

    IN that, he fails miserably. siam would rather preach and pontificate to us about the poetic traits of sura 1 and 2 and...!? Which is of no interest to us, because those things never ever proved the authenticity of any koranic propoganda.




    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
    siam, what ever gave you the idea that we wanted you to post verses of the Qur'an here in this topic thread???

    Comment


    • Siam, NO! We are NOT interested in your "sacred sounds" or whatever sacred cows you present to us with banal IRRELEVANCE above !

      Why are you RUNNING AWAY again from the questions I posed to you above & earlier - about sura 1 / fatihah?!?

      They are reproduced again here for your benefit:

      Who decided on the right or appropriate "placement" of such words of sura al-fatiha in the koran? Muhamed? Allah? the editor of the koran?

      According to your own admission, sura 1 / al-fatihah is "a prayer". It sounds like an appeal to God...How can THAT be any word from God??

      Does Allah/your god PRAY TO HIMSELF? That would make 2 gods in the koran!

      How can the kalam / claimed word of God be in a prayer form right THROUGH?

      The prayer in here is not any instruction to live by the koran's prescription. If God sent down those words as his kalam, then he must BE PRAYING TO HIMSELF

      - appealing to be shown the straight path

      - does God NOT KNOW what that path IS? He must be a very ignorant god! Not qualified to be any 'god'.

      - "Thee alone we worship" - Allah / your god is praying to himself - since every sura or chapter of the koran supposedly "came down from the
      mother of the book / ummul kitab" - the 'repository of his words'

      Surah Fatihah's contents are totally inconsistent with all the other suras / chapters of the koran because it is a "prayer" as you say! It all doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

      If it is just a prayer, then it is ONLY the words of Man and not a 'revelation' from the mouth of God / Allah! YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS..! IF it is "Allah's words" THEN Allah is praying to himself - now. DOES HE ?!?

      Please ANSWER the above with relevant words..not with ludicrous and irrelevant, desperate propoganda preaching about its so-called poetic and rhythmic whatever. We are not as naive as you to do that.

      Comment


      • Trucker, this was the quoted verses from sura 1 / fatihah that siam wanted so desperately to persuade you of its "auditory experience"..but I am sure you weren't looking for any such experience - rather for a sensible and intellectual answer which he FAILED MISERABLY TO ADDRESS, much less give.

        Surah 1. The Opening

        1. In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
        2. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
        3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
        4. Master of the Day of Judgment.
        5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
        6. Show us the straight way,
        7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.


        I asked siam about the hate speech found in Surah Fatihah 1 verses 6 & 7 highlighted above. They are there, and confirmed by the well-known orthodox islamic authorities

        from sura fatihah (1) / 6-7:

        Many people (including Muslims) are unaware of the fact that Surah al-Fatihah, the chapter that Muslims are required to recite at the start of each and every one of their daily prayers (SALAT / NAMAZ) actually contains an invocation asking Allah TO NEVER ALLOW THEM them to become like a Jew or a Christian, in effect, vilifying and condemning THEM JUST LIKE ADVERSARIES AND VIRULENT ENEMIES.

        In sura 1 vs 6-7, Muslims pray that Allah guide them to the straight path, saving them from the path of those who have incurred his anger and/or who have gone astray:

        "Show us the straight way, The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose portion is not WRATH, and who go not ASTRAY." A. Yusuf Ali

        According to the Muslim sources, THE JEWS are the ones who have incurred Allah’s WRATH/CURSE/CONDEMNATION, and THE CHRISTIANS are those who have GONE ASTRAY & LOST THEIR WAY:


        "The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians)." S. 1:7 Hilali-Khan

        Narrated Adi bin Hatim: I asked Allah’s Messenger about the Statement of Allah: "Gharil maghdubi ‘alaihim - not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger - WRATH AND CURSE!" he replied: "THEY ARE THE JEWS".

        And 2: "Walad dallin (nor of those who went astray)," he replied: "THE CHRISTIANS, and they are THE ONES WHO WENT ASTRAY".

        This is confirmation of VILIFICATION and Hate Speech from these koran verses against the Christian and the Jews.


        [This Hadith is quoted by At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud]. (Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali and Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, Interpretation of the Meanings of the Noble Qur’an in the English Language with Comments from Tafsir At-Tabari, Tafsir Al-Qurtubi and Tafsir Ibn Kathir and Ahadith from Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim and other Ahadith books [Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, Riyadh, Lahore, Houston, New York], Part 1: From Surah 1 to 5, p. 30.

        The above statements are 100% CONFIRMATION from recognised modern muslim scholars and authorities like Muhd Muhsin Khan, Taqiuddin al-Hilali and the classical ulamas and the Tafsirs (commentaries, exegesis etc) of recognised luminaries like ibn Kathir, Tabari, Qurtubi


        Are you recognised as even half a scholar like ANY of the above names, siam?

        And, WHAT Part of "adversarial" don't you understand from the above, siam?

        The Christians are NOT being adversarial here, but so many of the the Koran's verses, statements and commands here, ARE! And full of unjustified HATE SPEECH against Jews and Christians. OR - are you just denying these verses AND the Ulamas/Muslim scholars confirmations from your Koran?

        He just ran away and avoided the questions above about sura Fatihah v 6-7.




        Originally posted by Trucker View Post
        Would you care to tell us how many times this Surah is repeated daily in the prayers of a devout Muslim??

        Comment


        • When I first came to this forum I was amazed at the deep knowledge some of the posters here have regarding the depth of the evil that Islam is. Your posts, including this one merely demonstrate and confirm my first impressions here.

          Originally posted by Dan Zebiri View Post
          Trucker, this was the quoted verses from sura 1 / fatihah that siam wanted so desperately to persuade you of its "auditory experience"..but I am sure you weren't looking for any such experience - rather for a sensible and intellectual answer which he FAILED MISERABLY TO ADDRESS, much less give.

          Surah 1. The Opening

          1. In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
          2. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
          3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
          4. Master of the Day of Judgment.
          5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
          6. Show us the straight way,
          7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.


          I asked siam about the hate speech found in Surah Fatihah 1 verses 6 & 7 highlighted above. They are there, and confirmed by the well-known orthodox islamic authorities

          from sura fatihah (1) / 6-7:

          Many people (including Muslims) are unaware of the fact that Surah al-Fatihah, the chapter that Muslims are required to recite at the start of each and every one of their daily prayers (SALAT / NAMAZ) actually contains an invocation asking Allah TO NEVER ALLOW THEM them to become like a Jew or a Christian, in effect, vilifying and condemning THEM JUST LIKE ADVERSARIES AND VIRULENT ENEMIES.

          In sura 1 vs 6-7, Muslims pray that Allah guide them to the straight path, saving them from the path of those who have incurred his anger and/or who have gone astray:

          "Show us the straight way, The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose portion is not WRATH, and who go not ASTRAY." A. Yusuf Ali

          According to the Muslim sources, THE JEWS are the ones who have incurred Allah’s WRATH/CURSE/CONDEMNATION, and THE CHRISTIANS are those who have GONE ASTRAY & LOST THEIR WAY:


          "The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians)." S. 1:7 Hilali-Khan

          Narrated Adi bin Hatim: I asked Allah’s Messenger about the Statement of Allah: "Gharil maghdubi ‘alaihim - not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger - WRATH AND CURSE!" he replied: "THEY ARE THE JEWS".

          And 2: "Walad dallin (nor of those who went astray)," he replied: "THE CHRISTIANS, and they are THE ONES WHO WENT ASTRAY".

          This is confirmation of VILIFICATION and Hate Speech from these koran verses against the Christian and the Jews.


          [This Hadith is quoted by At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud]. (Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali and Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, Interpretation of the Meanings of the Noble Qur’an in the English Language with Comments from Tafsir At-Tabari, Tafsir Al-Qurtubi and Tafsir Ibn Kathir and Ahadith from Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim and other Ahadith books [Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, Riyadh, Lahore, Houston, New York], Part 1: From Surah 1 to 5, p. 30.

          The above statements are 100% CONFIRMATION from recognised modern muslim scholars and authorities like Muhd Muhsin Khan, Taqiuddin al-Hilali and the classical ulamas and the Tafsirs (commentaries, exegesis etc) of recognised luminaries like ibn Kathir, Tabari, Qurtubi
          Yes. Absolutely! I am and have been vividly aware of all this which is my reason for coming here in the first place. It is a long story as to how I came to make it a project to study and find the truth regarding Islam ... which I will not boor you with.

          I have been given different answers from MUslims re how many times a devout Muslim is required to recite the fatihah each day. I was a bit curious as to the figure our resident Islamic polemicist would provide.For whatever his reson[s] he has so far elected to pass on the question. But my real aim in bring this question up was to lead into where you are with your challenge of hate speech. Hate speech the devout Muslim will recite numerous times every day!!!!


          Originally posted by Dan Zebiri View Post
          Are you recognised as even half a scholar like ANY of the above names, siam?

          And, WHAT Part of "adversarial" don't you understand from the above, siam?

          The Christians are NOT being adversarial here, but so many of the the Koran's verses, statements and commands here, ARE! And full of unjustified HATE SPEECH against Jews and Christians. OR - are you just denying these verses AND the Ulamas/Muslim scholars confirmations from your Koran?

          He just ran away and avoided the questions above about sura Fatihah v 6-7.
          He seems to be well acquainted with the "party line". And like Kenny Rogers, he knows when to play what cards.

          Keep on keeping on .... I like your style!!

          Comment


          • Trucker! Thanks so much for your encouragement, man, appreciated.

            We need to hold the muslim missionaries accountable when they try to preach islam to people BUT by trying to cover up the glaring errors and the koran's doubtful polemics.

            I also find some other brethren here, like Christian3 and rogue et al, and perhaps more, who are consistent with their sincere AND intelligent questions posed to the muslims. Unfortunately, the same CANNOT be said of the muslims dawagandists / propogandists.. how desperate for these missionaries in offering rational replies.




            Originally posted by Trucker View Post
            When I first came to this forum I was amazed at the deep knowledge some of the posters here have regarding the depth of the evil that Islam is. Your posts, including this one merely demonstrate and confirm my first impressions here.



            Yes. Absolutely! I am and have been vividly aware of all this which is my reason for coming here in the first place. It is a long story as to how I came to make it a project to study and find the truth regarding Islam ... which I will not boor you with.

            I have been given different answers from MUslims re how many times a devout Muslim is required to recite the fatihah each day. I was a bit curious as to the figure our resident Islamic polemicist would provide.For whatever his reson[s] he has so far elected to pass on the question. But my real aim in bring this question up was to lead into where you are with your challenge of hate speech. Hate speech the devout Muslim will recite numerous times every day!!!!




            He seems to be well acquainted with the "party line". And like Kenny Rogers, he knows when to play what cards.

            Keep on keeping on .... I like your style!!

            Comment


            • Oh yes, I can help to answer the query you posted..

              Muslims have 5 COMPULSORY prayers to make ritualistically at set times & by prescription and even mechanistically, called 'salat' / 'namaz'.

              It is compulsory to recite Fatihah (sura 1) during those 5 set prescribed times, DAILY. But the number of reciting times or cycles differ from each set time. So, the dawn salat ("prayer" ritual) it may be two cycles / "rakat", then for the noon one, 3-4 cycles (rounds) etc...

              In Total, a typical muslim recites the fatihah SEVENTEEN (17) times PER DAY for ALL the Salats / namazs they MUST ritually make to their god.

              What is MORE important is therefore, muslims around the world, CURSE and pronounce judgement and the wrath of god 17 TIMES Per day upon the Jews!

              And 17 times per day - they vilify CHRISTIANS as having LOST THEIR WAY and have gone ASTRAY from the path or truth of God!

              If this isn't hate speech and hateful vilification then we don't know what is...!

              How can this religion mandating this kind of prayer - practice, ever be called a "religion of peace"?!? You tell me.








              Originally posted by Dan Zebiri View Post
              Trucker! Thanks so much for your encouragement, man, appreciated.

              We need to hold the muslim missionaries accountable when they try to preach islam to people BUT by trying to cover up the glaring errors and the koran's doubtful polemics.

              I also find some other brethren here, like Christian3 and rogue et al, and perhaps more, who are consistent with their sincere AND intelligent questions posed to the muslims. Unfortunately, the same CANNOT be said of the muslims dawagandists / propogandists.. how desperate for these missionaries in offering rational replies.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Dan Zebiri View Post
                Christian3, and Rogue,

                siam is flooding (read: "running away" from) your requests with verses that are totally IRRELEVANT to the questions posed. At the same time, he is also running away from many questions that I for example, have posed and he tries to dismiss them as "intellectually restricting" or not "widening to his intellectual horizon". HOW SELECTIVE and Hypocritical.

                But all that is just selective hogwash and choosing to avoid answering -with relevance- the real issues we want answered from a missionary for islam and muhamed.

                IN that, he fails miserably. siam would rather preach and pontificate to us about the poetic traits of sura 1 and 2 and...!? Which is of no interest to us, because those things never ever proved the authenticity of any koranic propoganda.
                You can ask a Moderator to put a stop to it.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Dan Zebiri View Post
                  Oh yes, I can help to answer the query you posted..

                  Muslims have 5 COMPULSORY prayers to make ritualistically at set times & by prescription and even mechanistically, called 'salat' / 'namaz'.

                  It is compulsory to recite Fatihah (sura 1) during those 5 set prescribed times, DAILY. But the number of reciting times or cycles differ from each set time. So, the dawn salat ("prayer" ritual) it may be two cycles / "rakat", then for the noon one, 3-4 cycles (rounds) etc...

                  In Total, a typical muslim recites the fatihah SEVENTEEN (17) times PER DAY for ALL the Salats / namazs they MUST ritually make to their god.
                  17 is the number of times a Muslim who is a personal acquaintance told me. It is also the number I believe is accurate.

                  Originally posted by Dan Zebiri View Post
                  What is MORE important is therefore, muslims around the world, CURSE and pronounce judgement and the wrath of god 17 TIMES Per day upon the Jews!
                  Yup.

                  Originally posted by Dan Zebiri View Post
                  And 17 times per day - they vilify CHRISTIANS as having LOST THEIR WAY and have gone ASTRAY from the path or truth of God!
                  I pointed all this out to my Muslim acquaintance.

                  Originally posted by Dan Zebiri View Post
                  If this isn't hate speech and hateful vilification then we don't know what is...!

                  How can this religion mandating this kind of prayer - practice, ever be called a "religion of peace"?!? You tell me.
                  It's not hard at all if you have your expert polemicists insinuated in many very high places within our society ... which they have managed to do. And I do mean MANY and VERY HIGH PLACES .... such as Congress, Justice Department, Homeland Security, education, etc., etc,. etc.! This could well turn out to be a much hotter summer than any weather forecaster has yet discussed!

                  BTW .... you mentioned Christian3. He and I are sorta old acquaintances. He and I were both posting on a different Islam discussion board for years before coming here. He was a great help getting me on this board. I can say nothing but good regarding him!
                  Last edited by Trucker; 06-03-2020, 07:00 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Hi Christian3, let's see how this character "siam" continues in the pattern of slinking misbehavior that marks the dawagandists who only want to peddle and push muslim polemics, but cannot and hence refuse to be held responsible to answer the tough, BUT VALID questions put to them.



                    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                    You can ask a Moderator to put a stop to it.

                    Comment


                    • Great, Trucker keep up the effort and don't give up asking those good and valid questions.

                      Comment


                      • "...I was amazed at the deep knowledge some of the posters here have regarding the depth of the evil that Islam is"

                        Is this what Christianity is? It teaches people to hate others? Does it not have any goodness within it that it needs to go about finding "evil" in your brothers?
                        Does your conduct represent the teachings of Jesus Christ? I was under the impression that Jesus Christ (pbuh) taught ...to love your neighbor and your enemies, to turn the other cheek, to look at ones own faults before judging others....etc....?
                        Is there anything good in your New Testament that you can show that is similar/equal to the Quran? If there is, then post the verses from the NT instead of spending your energies on hate. Let us compete in virtues and goodness.

                        rather than spending so much time on anti-Muslim sites that fill you with hate---learn about Christianity. I do not know what is missing in your lives that hate has become your go-to solution for dealing with life---but if you were to look deeper into the religion of your choice----I am sure there must be something there that will offer you comfort instead of relying on hatred of others as a means to make your lives better.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by siam View Post
                          "...I was amazed at the deep knowledge some of the posters here have regarding the depth of the evil that Islam is"
                          I guess the great Islamic polemicist doesn't know how to use the simple to use quote feather here, huh!!!


                          Originally posted by siam View Post
                          Is this what Christianity is? It teaches people to hate others? Does it not have any goodness within it that it needs to go about finding "evil" in your brothers?
                          Does your conduct represent the teachings of Jesus Christ? I was under the impression that Jesus Christ (pbuh) taught ...to love your neighbor and your enemies, to turn the other cheek, to look at ones own faults before judging others....etc....?
                          So so you claim that telling the truth constitutes hate??? You are thoroughly confused [or deliberately misleading] sir.

                          True Christianity is what Jesus taught just as true Islam is what this alleged character Muhammad allegedly taught. You know it and we know it. You are not being candid in your presentations sir.



                          Originally posted by siam View Post
                          Is there anything good in your New Testament that you can show that is similar/equal to the Quran? If there is, then post the verses from the NT instead of spending your energies on hate. Let us compete in virtues and goodness.
                          Thank God the New Testament stands so far above the Qur'an that there is no comparison,sir.

                          Originally posted by siam View Post
                          rather than spending so much time on anti-Muslim sites that fill you with hate---learn about Christianity. I do not know what is missing in your lives that hate has become your go-to solution for dealing with life---but if you were to look deeper into the religion of your choice----I am sure there must be something there that will offer you comfort instead of relying on hatred of others as a means to make your lives better.
                          Is the Qur'an a hate Muslims sight? How bout the Sirat Rasul Allah ... a hate Muslims sight??? Or the Reliance of the Traveler??? Another hate Muslims sight? Tell us sir!!!

                          You seem terribly confused [or deliberately misleading], sir. It is Islam .... pure unadulterated Islam as taught and practiced by Muhammad that is problem, sir

                          I simpl;y do have have the time right at this moment to go into more detail or correct any typos .... .

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by siam View Post
                            "...I was amazed at the deep knowledge some of the posters here have regarding the depth of the evil that Islam is"

                            Is this what Christianity is? It teaches people to hate others? Does it not have any goodness within it that it needs to go about finding "evil" in your brothers?
                            Does your conduct represent the teachings of Jesus Christ? I was under the impression that Jesus Christ (pbuh) taught ...to love your neighbor and your enemies, to turn the other cheek, to look at ones own faults before judging others....etc....?
                            Is there anything good in your New Testament that you can show that is similar/equal to the Quran? If there is, then post the verses from the NT instead of spending your energies on hate. Let us compete in virtues and goodness.

                            rather than spending so much time on anti-Muslim sites that fill you with hate---learn about Christianity. I do not know what is missing in your lives that hate has become your go-to solution for dealing with life---but if you were to look deeper into the religion of your choice----I am sure there must be something there that will offer you comfort instead of relying on hatred of others as a means to make your lives better.
                            siam, yes Christians are to love others. Part of loving others is to pray for them and point out their errors.

                            If a verse in the Qur'an has been misinterpreted, it is up to you to correct it.

                            Comment


                            • Hello Siam sahib. Kindly do something right and proper for a change, ok? Show us WHERE and when I or Christians on Theologyweb ever said hate the Muslims and hate islam in that format, inciting people to hate muslims aggressively in the way you insinuate in your post below??
                              It was you who brought up the point about sura al-fatihah (chapter 1 of the koran) AFTER I had previously asked some genuine questions about doubtful aspects in this koranic chapter. Weirdly but Unsurprisingly, you deliberately IGNORED to answer the points I raised as usual, and went on and on about the poetic and aesthetic but wholly irrelevant beauty of this sura. Trying to show sura fatihas attractiveness perhaps in a futile effort to neutralize the hate speech taught and promoted in sura fatihah (1) v.6-7.

                              NOW, you try to hide behind FALSE accusations on the Christians that are BASELESS as they are patently IRRELEVANT. This is just another worthless deflection tactic from you to run away from answering my GENUINE query that is not hate speech in any way!

                              Then, you also shamelessly insinuate things about Jesus Christ that neither you nor the Koran are qualified to claim nor pontificate or preach to Christians about. We Christians have time and time again said the JESUS of the Gospel IS NOT THE SAME JESUS FOUND IN THE KORAN. We reject the caricature and deformity that the koran presumptuously calls Isa to equate him with the Biblical Jesus Christ BUT that only came 700 years after the original facts recorded in the earliest records about Christ.

                              Because you have pretentiously ignored the material Question that is DIRECTLY pertinent to sura 1 of the koran, you have another chance to answer the genuine and sincere question about the HATE SPEECH enjoined in the very FIRST and opening chapter of your Koran itself..:

                              In sura 1 vs 6-7, Muslims pray that Allah guide them to the straight path, saving them from the path of those who have incurred his anger and/or who have gone astray:

                              "Show us the straight way, The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose portion is not WRATH, and who go not ASTRAY." A. Yusuf Ali.

                              According to the MUSLIM (NOT Christian) authorities, the true meanings of verses 6-7 are that THE JEWS are the ones who have incurred Allahs WRATH/CURSE/CONDEMNATION, and THE CHRISTIANS are those who have GONE ASTRAY & LOST THEIR WAY:
                              "The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians)." S. 1:7 Hilali-Khan

                              Narrated Adi bin Hatim: I asked Allahs Messenger Muhamed - about the Statement of Allah: "Gharil maghdubi alaihim - not the way of those who earned Your Anger - WRATH AND CURSE!" he replied: "THEY ARE THE JEWS".

                              And 2: "Walad dallin (nor of those who went astray)," he replied: "THE CHRISTIANS, and they are THE ONES WHO WENT ASTRAY".

                              This is confirmation of indisputable VILIFICATION and Hate Speech from these koran verses against the Christian and the Jews, nothing LESS.

                              [This Hadith is quoted by At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud]. (Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali and Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, Interpretation of the Meanings of the Noble Qur’an in the English Language with Comments from Tafsir At-Tabari, Tafsir Al-Qurtubi and Tafsir Ibn Kathir and Ahadith from Sahih Al-Bukhari, Sahih Muslim and other Ahadith books [Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, Riyadh, Lahore, Houston, New York], Part 1: From Surah 1 to 5, p. 30.

                              The above statements are 100% CONFIRMATION from recognised modern muslim scholars and authorities like Muhd Muhsin Khan, Taqiuddin al-Hilali and the classical ulamas and the Tafsirs (commentaries, exegesis etc) of recognised luminaries like ibn Kathir, Tabari, Qurtubi
                              THIS is the Korans real HATE speech that calls for Gods wrathful curses upon the Jews AND unwarranted VILIFICATION of Christians as lost souls gone astray seventeen times a day, EVERY SINGLE DAY when muslims do the salat / namaz / compulsory prayers daily. THATS THE REAL HATE SPEECH, siam.

                              Answer me, WHY does the koran incite such vicious hate speech against Christians and Jews among the muslims ? That is its real teachings & instructions and confirmed by all the reputable Islamic tafsir authorities. And please, dont come up with some patronizing nonsense that the Biblical Jesus teaches the same kind of things as the above in the koran. That is just shameless and baseless deflection to avoid the hate speech and vilifications against Jews and Christians explicitly enjoined in your Koran!



                              Originally posted by siam View Post
                              "...I was amazed at the deep knowledge some of the posters here have regarding the depth of the evil that Islam is"

                              Is this what Christianity is? It teaches people to hate others? Does it not have any goodness within it that it needs to go about finding "evil" in your brothers?
                              Does your conduct represent the teachings of Jesus Christ? I was under the impression that Jesus Christ (pbuh) taught ...to love your neighbor and your enemies, to turn the other cheek, to look at ones own faults before judging others....etc....?
                              Is there anything good in your New Testament that you can show that is similar/equal to the Quran? If there is, then post the verses from the NT instead of spending your energies on hate. Let us compete in virtues and goodness.

                              rather than spending so much time on anti-Muslim sites that fill you with hate---learn about Christianity. I do not know what is missing in your lives that hate has become your go-to solution for dealing with life---but if you were to look deeper into the religion of your choice----I am sure there must be something there that will offer you comfort instead of relying on hatred of others as a means to make your lives better.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by siam View Post

                                Is this what Christianity is? It teaches people to hate others? Does it not have any goodness within it that it needs to go about finding "evil" in your brothers?
                                Does your conduct represent the teachings of Jesus Christ? I was under the impression that Jesus Christ (pbuh) taught ...to love your neighbor and your enemies, to turn the other cheek, to look at ones own faults before judging others....etc....?
                                Indeed He did command us to love our fellow man .... all our fellow men, including Muslims, sir. Not only that .... by the power of the Holy Spirit which HE sends to us WE CAN HONESTLY SAY TO WE .... WE LOVE YOU!!! We must point out for you the error of your belief out of love!! Now show us from the Qur'an and your Sharia where you are commanded to love Jews, Christian, and other non-Muslims!! And before you show us be sure what your are showing us HAS NOT BEEN ABROGATED!!! SHOW US, SIR!! If you don't know this you don't really know diddly swat and if you do know it you are being less than candid with us!!

                                Originally posted by siam View Post
                                Is there anything good in your New Testament that you can show that is similar/equal to the Quran? If there is, then post the verses from the NT instead of spending your energies on hate. Let us compete in virtues and goodness
                                What area you talking about?????? All that from one whose supreme example committed genocide, ordered political murders of old men, women with suckling children, and so on, was a self confessed liar, and on and on and on and on!!

                                Until you are ready to admit these things you are not ready for a serious and honest discussion!!

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