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Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Maybe he is unfamiliar with the term "jihad." Or maybe he hopes we'll fall for that steaming pile of Taqiya or Taqiyya, that it doesn't really mean holy war with the sole intent of forcing conversions.
    Thank you for your comments.

    Seems the poster is being far less than candid. But it is my understanding that the primary objective of jihad can be, and often is, the imposition of shariah whether or not anyone actually immediately converts to Islam. If that is correct then they are much further along than most of us seem to be aware of.

    Comment


    • #47

      Yeah, there is also such a thing as stealth jihad and it is more insidious and subconscious (to the non-muslim). To the muslims living in the west, where they are in the minority these muslims are quite conscious and always work to demand their religious "rights" (assumed entitlements, actually) from the secular state.

      One reason is that there are ahadith in islamic sunna that assert that "Allah/God has given the whole earth to Mohamed and his followers as a mosque," and muslims must claim the while world to come under islam and even sharia laws.

      That's why they take it as a jihad struggle to work towards world domination. Unlike God's promise to Israel, who only made the blessing of the promised land of Canaan to the Jews - not the entire whole world. Muslims will never rest until they see the whole world subjugated by islam - that's their greatest jihad against the unbelievers non muslims, be it the state, geo-political systems, culture & education, military, finance, freedom of religion etc.

      Should they be allowed to dominate and subjugate the non muslim world in line with their false belief system?

      I think NOT! Not for the good amd blessing of humanity.



      Originally posted by Trucker View Post

      Thank you for your comments.

      Seems the poster is being far less than candid. But it is my understanding that the primary objective of jihad can be, and often is, the imposition of shariah whether or not anyone actually immediately converts to Islam. If that is correct then they are much further along than most of us seem to be aware of.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post

        If you truly want to submit to God, you would accept his gift of mercy and salvation through the sacrifice of Jesus. By rejecting that, you are rejecting God and showing you are not in submission to him and you indeed will be judged on your works. Wouldn't you rather be forgiven of all of your sins?
        Forgiven---From the Islamic perspective---human beings are forgiven when they ask for forgiveness. Prophet Adam was forgiven. God is most compassionate, most merciful.
        Such a proposition suits me---I can understand it and give assent to it.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

          Well as I said, if Islam is correct, I will still go to heaven. But if Christianity is correct, you will end up in hell. And Thank God, that it is all about what God is doing for humanity because there is nothing we can do to earn our way to heaven. What can anyone do "for" a God who has everything? Other than return his love? That is all God requires, love him and your fellow man. Loving him means accepting his gift of salvation through Jesus Christ instead of rejecting that gift and trying to do it by yourself.
          If Islam is correct---I can be a "Muslim" and still end up in hell if I am a bad person who refuses to repent. A self-designated label does not matter----What matters most is what is in ones heart.
          Faith =The use of ones intellect and reason to arrive at heartfelt conviction.

          Since I cannot understand Christianity---I cannot have faith in Christianity. To give assent to Christian premises under such a condition would go against my integrity.

          Comment


          • #50

            Your "intergrity" is already doubtful and questionable regardless of your belief in the true Gospel-of Christianity, or in Islam, Siam. Since you say you cannot "give assent" the notion of inherent violence and hate speech in the Koran and Islam.

            The following Koran ayats/verses already proved you wrong and the fallacy and duplicity of your presumption ("assent" or otherwise):

            INHERENT VIOLENCE AND HATE SPEECH IN THE KORAN-

            "Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

            Surah 8/12

            “Finger-tips” is the textual euphemism for “hands” in Arabic. So CHOP OFF the unbelieving non-Muslims heads and hands.

            “So, Muslim believers, when you meet in battle those who disbelieve (the non-Muslims), STRIKE OFF THEIR HEADS.”

            Surah 47/4

            “KILL from among the people of the Book (Christians and Jews) who DO NOT BELIEVE in Allah and the Last Day, who do not HOLD unlawful what Allah and his messenger have declared to be unlawful and DO NO SUBSCRIBE (ie. Follow & believe) to the true faith (ie Islam)..”

            Surah 9/29.

            Allah orders that the people of the Book here – Christians and Jews, MUST BE KILLED BY MUSLIMS JUST for NOT Believing in Islam and Muhamed. NOT because these Christians etc were fighting physical warfare with the Muslims at all!

            Mere unbelief in Islam is good reason and cause enough for the murder and attacks on non-Muslims according to sura 9/29, among other Koranic verses.

            Islam – a religion of peace? Nah, fat hope & mere more cheap propaganda from the islamist missionaries – worthless!

            Whether you assent or not is totally irrelevant and unimportant, Siam. The Koran is unmistakable in commanding and enjoining Muslims to violence and hate speech against the people of the Book even.

            You just cannot refute the above verses from your own scripture the Koran!

            “The Jews say ‘Ezra is the son of Allah,’ while Christians say that ‘the Messiah/Christ is the Son of Allah’, these are only words that they speak. They merely imitate the words of the infidels of old. ALLAH CURSE THEM. How deluded they are..

            Surah 9/30.

            Surah 9/30 is pure and unprovoked Islamic hate speech from your Koran, proof of bigotry and intolerance demanded by Allah and Mohamed from the Muslims against Christians and Jews. Your consent or not is irrelevant to the Koran's hate speech and violence.

            Learn to ADMIT IT, Siam!




            Originally posted by siam View Post

            If Islam is correct---I can be a "Muslim" and still end up in hell if I am a bad person who refuses to repent. A self-designated label does not matter----What matters most is what is in ones heart.
            Faith =The use of ones intellect and reason to arrive at heartfelt conviction.

            Since I cannot understand Christianity---I cannot have faith in Christianity. To give assent to Christian premises under such a condition would go against my integrity.

            Comment


            • #51

              The islamic God creates people and souls BOTH FOR HEAVEN AND FOR HELL..!

              That is neither compassionate NOT merciful.

              Sura 4/88 & 89 of the Koran makes it very clear about Allah sending people astray to hell & destruction:
              Do you want to guide those who are sent astray by GOD? Whomever GOD sends astray, you can never find a way to guide them.
              - R. Khalifa version

              Seek ye to guide him whom Allah hath sent astray ? He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him thou (O MUhammad) canst not find a road.

              - Pickthall version

              Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to ERR ? And whomsoever Allah causes to ERR, you shall by no means find a way for him.

              - Shakir version
              Desire ye to guide him whom ALLAH has caused to perish ? And for him whom ALLAH causes to perish thou shalt NOT FIND a way.
              - Sher Ali version

              Would ye guide those whom God hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom God hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.

              - Yusuf Ali version

              Therefore, If Allah has made that soul for Hell & to perish in hell, no amount of asking for forgiveness from Allah for that person will be successful nor make ANY DIFFERENCE.

              Because as this koranic verse above proves - plus many more, including the valid Hadiths affirm and assent to the veracity of these verses of the reality of the non-forgiveness by Allah/God who made souls and people for hell.

              We have NO confidence NOR faith in THIS KIND of capricious islamic God who demonstrates traits of tyranny and hypocrisy to his titles of so-called "mercy and compassion". These 2 words are meaningless in
              islam and the Quran!





              Originally posted by siam View Post

              Forgiven---From the Islamic perspective---human beings are forgiven when they ask for forgiveness. Prophet Adam was forgiven. God is most compassionate, most merciful.
              Such a proposition suits me---I can understand it and give assent to it.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by siam View Post

                Forgiven---From the Islamic perspective---human beings are forgiven when they ask for forgiveness. Prophet Adam was forgiven. God is most compassionate, most merciful.
                Such a proposition suits me---I can understand it and give assent to it.
                Asking for forgiveness and accepting Christ as your Savior is the very essence of what Christianity is. No need to follow explicit commands to forcibly convert others and butcher those who don't.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by siam View Post


                  Since I cannot understand Christianity---I cannot have faith in Christianity. To give assent to Christian premises under such a condition would go against my integrity.
                  Ironically, I can and do understand Islam which is precisely the reason I could never have faith in it.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    A very GOOD and Valid point, indeed.



                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    Ironically, I can and do understand Islam which is precisely the reason I could never have faith in it.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Asking for forgiveness and accepting Christ as your Savior is the very essence of what Christianity is. No need to follow explicit commands to forcibly convert others and butcher those who don't.
                      I agree---if only more Christians had thought as you do, it would have been great.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Ironically, I can and do understand Islam which is precisely the reason I could never have faith in it.
                        From my perspective--you misunderstand it---nevertheless---that is why God has provided the path of Christianity for you---because God is most compassionate, most merciful.

                        Comment


                        • #57

                          Try focusing on the Koranic verses given to you above, on Allah's MISGUIDANCE and Misleading people and souls astray first.

                          Like, from sura 4/88. FIVE established and well-known koran translators all agree on Allah's intentionally sending people and souls ASTRAY into destruction and to PERISH - in line WITH HIS WILL.

                          Don't tell us that you can give a better (more taqiyyist) rendering of sura 4/88 than them? LOL...!

                          It is downright ridiculous and nonsensical that Muslims can call Allah "arrahman, arrahim" - "merciful & compassionate" because he sends the very same people and souls TO PERISH IN HELL at the same time.

                          You want to help non-muslims "understand islam better", siam? Then explain the contradiction above.. because sura 4/88 makes no sense to a merciful deity.
                          Do you want to guide those who are sent astray by GOD? Whomever GOD sends astray, you can never find a way to guide them.
                          - R. Khalifa version

                          Seek ye to guide him whom Allah hath sent astray ? He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him thou (O MUhammad) canst not find a road.
                          - Pickthall version

                          Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to ERR ? And whomsoever Allah causes to ERR, you shall by no means find a way for him.
                          - Shakir version
                          Desire ye to guide him whom ALLAH has caused to perish ? And for him whom ALLAH causes to perish thou shalt NOT FIND a way.
                          - Sher Ali version

                          Would ye guide those whom God hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom God hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.
                          - Yusuf Ali version

                          Therefore, If Allah has made that soul for Hell & to perish in hell, no amount of asking for forgiveness from Allah for that person will be successful nor make ANY DIFFERENCE.

                          OR, do you mean that God/Allah has given to rogue06 "the path of Christianity" as a means of destruction - because your Allah is "most compassionate, most merciful"??

                          You just can't have it both ways...LOL!


                          Originally posted by siam View Post

                          From my perspective--you misunderstand it---nevertheless---that is why God has provided the path of Christianity for you---because God is most compassionate, most merciful.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by siam View Post

                            I agree---if only more Christians had thought as you do, it would have been great.
                            Unfortunately humans behave like humans and seek to do what they want and seek justification for it later. If we all followed Jesus the world would undeniably be a better place.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Dan Zebiri View Post
                              Try focusing on the Koranic verses given to you above, on Allah's MISGUIDANCE and Misleading people and souls astray first.

                              Like, from sura 4/88. FIVE established and well-known koran translators all agree on Allah's intentionally sending people and souls ASTRAY into destruction and to PERISH - in line WITH HIS WILL.

                              Don't tell us that you can give a better (more taqiyyist) rendering of sura 4/88 than them? LOL...!

                              It is downright ridiculous and nonsensical that Muslims can call Allah "arrahman, arrahim" - "merciful & compassionate" because he sends the very same people and souls TO PERISH IN HELL at the same time.

                              You want to help non-muslims "understand islam better", siam? Then explain the contradiction above.. because sura 4/88 makes no sense to a merciful deity.
                              Do you want to guide those who are sent astray by GOD? Whomever GOD sends astray, you can never find a way to guide them.
                              - R. Khalifa version

                              Seek ye to guide him whom Allah hath sent astray ? He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him thou (O MUhammad) canst not find a road.
                              - Pickthall version

                              Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to ERR ? And whomsoever Allah causes to ERR, you shall by no means find a way for him.
                              - Shakir version
                              Desire ye to guide him whom ALLAH has caused to perish ? And for him whom ALLAH causes to perish thou shalt NOT FIND a way.
                              - Sher Ali version

                              Would ye guide those whom God hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom God hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.
                              - Yusuf Ali version

                              Therefore, If Allah has made that soul for Hell & to perish in hell, no amount of asking for forgiveness from Allah for that person will be successful nor make ANY DIFFERENCE.

                              OR, do you mean that God/Allah has given to rogue06 "the path of Christianity" as a means of destruction - because your Allah is "most compassionate, most merciful"??

                              You just can't have it both ways...LOL!
                              Then there is the practice of Taqiya or Taqiyya, which allows them to lie to and deceive non-Muslims. Originally it was meant as a means of self-defense, allowing them to deny their faith to avoid persecution, but it has been greatly expanded to include situations where no danger is involved but when it merely serves their interests. This is justified by a line in the most revered of the Hadiths, the Sahih al-Bukhari, which states that Abu Darda, one of the companions of Muhammad and later governor of Syria reminded the faithful that they should "smile in the face of some people [infidels] although our hearts curse them."

                              I should note that this practice of denying ones faith stands in sharp contrast to the Christian willingness to martyr themselves for their belief and I Peter 3:15


                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by siam View Post

                                From my perspective--you misunderstand it---nevertheless---that is why God has provided the path of Christianity for you---because God is most compassionate, most merciful.
                                God provided Christianity for all of us in order to establish a path for salvation that we could not achieve on our own -- something that Islam tries to trick people into thinking is possible

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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