What a poor liar you are, Siam. Your – or your muslim friend’s whom you consulted – both of your statements are the really nonsensical ones. You can make such a blundering claim like:
"here is a confusion of terms here which renders the above statements nonsensical.
Qirat refers to (oral) recitation.
Hadith are NOT Quran
Mutawatir---is a classification category used for ahadith."
So, mutawatir & tawatur are criteria ONLY for hadith is it? Either your knowledge of tawatur or mutawatir is really crappy and shallow. Or you are just trying your luck to lie again to us! Well, hard luck on you then.
Mutawatir or “provenance” of the readings are only for the hadith?? NOT according all the ahli sunnah orthodox scholars PAST And PRESENT. You must think we are stupid, perhaps like you and your muslim friends are!
The islam.stackexchange.com blog (mutawatir entry) has numerous discussions about qiraat and tawatur and mutawatir. They all agree that mutawatir /tawatur (provenance) determines any qiraat validity. And mutawtir IS NOT just applicable to the hadith – it applies very much to qiraats too! Therefore to the Quran AS WELL.
Go also to another Muslim link – www.ibnamin.com/tawatur_quran.htm. You can translate from the Arabic and it is clear as day. Only ‘tawatur’ qiraats should make up the Quran. And yet there are so many inconsistencies and contradictions among themselves.
Likewise Wikipedia gives confirmation on this too. No evidence to support your devious claim that mutawatir is ' "classification category used for hadith" only!
Mutawatir is very much for the qiraats of the quran ALSO!
Anyway, the fath al-bari reports [From Zaid:]
“I found the last verse of sura al Tawba in the possession of Abu Khuzaima al Ansari, having found it with NO ONE ELSE, ‘There has now come to you…’ to the end of the sura.
- p.119, Ahmad b.Ali b. Muhd.Asqalani, ibn Hajar, “Fath al Bari,” 13 vols. Cairo, 1939/1348 vol.9, p.9
This is an example of a verse that IS NON-TAWATUR ie.Not Mutawatir whasoever. Sura 9/128,129 were only found with Khuzaima and nobody else.
And yet it became a Quran verse in spite of not complying with and defying the orthodox criteria of mutawatir – which 9/128 & 129 is clearly not tawatur as recorded by al-Bukhari himself!
Dr. Nasser considers this as proof of non-tawatur verses in the Quran, inserted unscrupulously by MAN and not by God for sure.
If there are TWO such verses - sura at-tawba 9/128-129, how many more have been inserted – not by Allah or Jibril, but by the human manufacturers of the Quran?
You claim we follow made-up stories. But the fact that the quran was standardized by man’s decisions, interventions and dubious intrigues are not fabrications nor fairy stories. They are ALL found in valid, orthodox Islamic sources themselves. The interventions by ibn Mujahid to select 7 from 40 readings are well documented by the early grammarians. Likewise the next human intervention of the taking of more qiraats for the making of the standard Quran – 480 Years later by ibn al-Jazari are also recorded by Arabists and well known Muslims.
These are recorded in the documented history of the development and compilation of al quran.
Who are you to deny them? Or call them “stories”. Dr. Nasser considers the as SOUND. Are you more qualified than him – a credentialed muslim PhD scholar?!? Give me a break!!
The fact is the quran is based on extremely flimsy history, doubtful and curiously questionable “evidences”. It is not worthy at all to be compared to the how the Bible was canonized.
Originally posted by siam
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