We find more circular reasoning in Siam’s reply, which is unsurprising. Must non-Muslims actually convert to islam first, to be able to believe in the Koran’s preservation?
That is a very unconvincing and unreassuring answer to the ‘holes in the standard narrative” problem exposed by sheikh Yasir Qadhi in his June 8 YouTube interview.
The Muslims’ favorite mantra/chant and propaganda is the so-called “perfect preservation of the Koran”. It is in fact, nothing more than just a mantra which they have to chant to drum this polemic and theory into desperate minds. It is the foundation, reason and whole basis for the validity and authenticity of Islam’s existence and the Koran’s continued currency. The reality is that the Koran was not preserved properly, much less perfectly as the experts (and Muslim ones) will tell us. Orthodox islamic sources tell us that there were Korans with different chapter totals that the companions used and circulated, one version - Abdullah ibn Masud's had 111 chapters/surahs, another koran version of Ubai b. Kab - had 116 chapters & todays version mostly settled for 114 chapters! There is nothing same or preserved in all these different chaptered korans from the 'mother of the Book'
Unfortunately for missionaries like Siam, who has to now resort to verbal acrobatics and abstract, intellectual gymnastics to persuade detractors and unbelievers that it is so, just falls down dead on to arid, dry ground even though it is all obfuscations and more baseless propaganda.
Simply because even the well known Muslim intellectuals and researchers into “Koranic preservation” admit such a claim is rather impossible to prove factually and that “the standard narrative has holes in it.”
This is the narrative of proper and perfect Koranic preservation. Which then turns out finally into a myth.
Dr. Yasir Qadhi of Houston Texas, himself admits in his lectures that the Koran’s qiraats and ahruf have differences, not only in readings (recitings) but also in whole letters and words.
Dr. Shady Nasser is more straightforward in his lecture and admits that the readings / qiraats have different VOCABULARY, sentences, words structure and recitings. Such different vocabulary and words only mean differences in meanings in the same verses & passages.
He also disclosed that during one of the stages of Koranic canonization, seven qiraats / styles were chosen arbitrarily from 40-50 different ones by ibn Mujahid in 936 A.D. Then, over 490 years later in 1429 AD, another three qiraats were further taken from the remaining unchosen styles by ibn al-Jazari who conducted the Koran’s third canonization. Making a total of TEN different qiraats. Which one(s) of the above cherry-picked ones is/are actually, the authentic & original Koran “sent down to Muhamed”??
Why were seven, and then ten chosen over the fifty pre-existing DIFFERENT readings & qiraats? Did ANY of these 2 canonizers follow a divine order or authenticated guidelines to select these 7, then 10 variant qiraats over the OTHER 40-plus to ensure real originality? What’s so special of these 10+ selected qiraat over the other 30-40 qiraat that did NOT get chosen?
These points were brought to public attention by Shady Nasser, a Muslim and not by a westener, non-muslim "kafir" or infidel in Muslims' eyes!
That is a very unconvincing and unreassuring answer to the ‘holes in the standard narrative” problem exposed by sheikh Yasir Qadhi in his June 8 YouTube interview.
The Muslims’ favorite mantra/chant and propaganda is the so-called “perfect preservation of the Koran”. It is in fact, nothing more than just a mantra which they have to chant to drum this polemic and theory into desperate minds. It is the foundation, reason and whole basis for the validity and authenticity of Islam’s existence and the Koran’s continued currency. The reality is that the Koran was not preserved properly, much less perfectly as the experts (and Muslim ones) will tell us. Orthodox islamic sources tell us that there were Korans with different chapter totals that the companions used and circulated, one version - Abdullah ibn Masud's had 111 chapters/surahs, another koran version of Ubai b. Kab - had 116 chapters & todays version mostly settled for 114 chapters! There is nothing same or preserved in all these different chaptered korans from the 'mother of the Book'
Unfortunately for missionaries like Siam, who has to now resort to verbal acrobatics and abstract, intellectual gymnastics to persuade detractors and unbelievers that it is so, just falls down dead on to arid, dry ground even though it is all obfuscations and more baseless propaganda.
Simply because even the well known Muslim intellectuals and researchers into “Koranic preservation” admit such a claim is rather impossible to prove factually and that “the standard narrative has holes in it.”
This is the narrative of proper and perfect Koranic preservation. Which then turns out finally into a myth.
Dr. Yasir Qadhi of Houston Texas, himself admits in his lectures that the Koran’s qiraats and ahruf have differences, not only in readings (recitings) but also in whole letters and words.
Dr. Shady Nasser is more straightforward in his lecture and admits that the readings / qiraats have different VOCABULARY, sentences, words structure and recitings. Such different vocabulary and words only mean differences in meanings in the same verses & passages.
He also disclosed that during one of the stages of Koranic canonization, seven qiraats / styles were chosen arbitrarily from 40-50 different ones by ibn Mujahid in 936 A.D. Then, over 490 years later in 1429 AD, another three qiraats were further taken from the remaining unchosen styles by ibn al-Jazari who conducted the Koran’s third canonization. Making a total of TEN different qiraats. Which one(s) of the above cherry-picked ones is/are actually, the authentic & original Koran “sent down to Muhamed”??
Why were seven, and then ten chosen over the fifty pre-existing DIFFERENT readings & qiraats? Did ANY of these 2 canonizers follow a divine order or authenticated guidelines to select these 7, then 10 variant qiraats over the OTHER 40-plus to ensure real originality? What’s so special of these 10+ selected qiraat over the other 30-40 qiraat that did NOT get chosen?
These points were brought to public attention by Shady Nasser, a Muslim and not by a westener, non-muslim "kafir" or infidel in Muslims' eyes!
Originally posted by siam
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