Announcement

Collapse

Islam Guidelines

Theists only.

This forum is a debate area to discuss issues pertaining to Islam. This forum is generally for theists only, and is not the area for debate between atheists and theists. Non-theist may not post here without first obtaining permission from the moderator of this forum. Granting of such permission is subject to Moderator discretion - and may be revoked if the Moderator feels that the poster is not keeping with the spirit of the World Religions Department.



Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

The Baha'i faith

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Baha'i faith

    Generally what do Muslims think of the Baha'i faith?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Because of the Medina Charter, precedents, and certain verses of the Quran, Islam can be very tolerant of non-Muslim practices/laws (way of life). However, Muslims are also afraid of "corruption" of Islam. This is because the Quran warns of "corruption" of previous messages. This can make Muslims intolerant of perceived "corruption" of those faiths whose origins or influence come from Islam. I personally find this unfortunate and of all the faiths that are most similar to Islam, I find Bahai faith fascinating...though I do not know much about it.

    This is a video of a Chinese Muslim who found the Bahai faith appealing (But eventually decided to remain Muslim)

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks siam. So members of the Baha'i faith are not considered Muslims.

      From the Internet:

      BAHA'I: Baha'i is another movement which is descended from Islam, but which most Muslims today no longer regard as authentically Islamic. Baha'i is an eclectic religion that boasts a prophet, Baha'u'llah, who supersedes Muhammad and has temples scattered around the world.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by siam View Post
        Because of the Medina Charter, precedents, and certain verses of the Quran, Islam can be very tolerant of non-Muslim practices/laws (way of life). However, Muslims are also afraid of "corruption" of Islam. This is because the Quran warns of "corruption" of previous messages. This can make Muslims intolerant of perceived "corruption" of those faiths whose origins or influence come from Islam. I personally find this unfortunate and of all the faiths that are most similar to Islam, I find Bahai faith fascinating...though I do not know much about it.
        In case you ddin't know .....

        From Reliance of the Traveler:
        From Reliance of the Traveler, Pae 670, o11.2
        O11.2 …………………….

        ( A Something that could have been a book refers to those like the Zoroastrians who have remnants resembling a book. As for the psuedoscriptures of cults that have appeared since Islam {n such as the Sikhs, Baha’is, Mormons, Qadianis, etc.) they neither are or could be a book, since the Koran is the final revelation (dis: 4).

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
          Thanks siam. So members of the Baha'i faith are not considered Muslims.

          From the Internet:

          BAHA'I: Baha'i is another movement which is descended from Islam, but which most Muslims today no longer regard as authentically Islamic. Baha'i is an eclectic religion that boasts a prophet, Baha'u'llah, who supersedes Muhammad and has temples scattered around the world.
          Sikhs, Nation of Islam, Bahai, Ahmadiya ...etc Do not conform to the 2nd part of the Shahada which is the Muslim creedal statement. Shahada = There is no god but God and Muhammed is his Prophet.
          Any religion that claims a "Prophet" after Prophet Muhammed is not considered as conforming to the creedal statement.(Shahada) and any religion that does not accept Prophet Muhammed as the messenger of God is also not considered part of Islam. (such as Jews and Christians)

          The legal definition of what/who is "Muslim" is different from the spiritual definition of who is "muslim". The legal definition pertains to law and identity here on earth. The spiritual definition/identification is the right of God.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yr quote from reliance of the traveler

            (Shafi shool of law/sharia)
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliance_of_the_Traveller

            the quote may be incomplete as context seem to be missing.

            The Islamic/Quranic view is that God sent "messengers" to all of humanity throughout time. Some (messengers/teachers) are mentioned in the Quran and others are not. Some messengers brought "law", others were wisdom teachers that guided a community towards "right belief" or brought guidance.
            While a Muslim can accept that God allows for wisdom teachers even after the Prophet Muhammed (who is considered a lawgiver), it would not be acceptable to consider any other Prophet after Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) as a "Lawgiver" of God.

            Comment


            • #7
              Don't you know how to tag your reply to the post you're replying to?? You seem so interested in context.

              Try real hard .... I'm betting you san do it!


              Originally posted by siam View Post
              Yr quote from reliance of the traveler

              (Shafi shool of law/sharia)
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliance_of_the_Traveller

              the quote may be incomplete as context seem to be missing.
              So you disavow Reliance of the Traveler, Page 607, o11.2?

              Originally posted by siam View Post
              The Islamic/Quranic view is that God sent "messengers" to all of humanity throughout time. d.
              Perhaps interesting but I didn't ask you what the the Islamic/Quranic view is, did I? But since you mention it, If the Quran was really intended for all of humanity throughout time then why in the world would Allah have made it understandable only in classical Arabic when relative few people even remotely understand [or ever understood] classical Arabic??? The meanings not even translatable??? And if the Qur'an did actually come down form Allah in '"classical Arabic" they why are there so many NON Arabic words in the Qur'an???? Wasn't Allah proficient in classical Arabic?? And why so many abrogations? Couldn't Allah get it right the first itme?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Trucker View Post
                Don't you know how to tag your reply to the post you're replying to?? You seem so interested in context.

                Try real hard .... I'm betting you san do it!




                So you disavow Reliance of the Traveler, Page 607, o11.2?



                Perhaps interesting but I didn't ask you what the the Islamic/Quranic view is, did I? But since you mention it, If the Quran was really intended for all of humanity throughout time then why in the world would Allah have made it understandable only in classical Arabic when relative few people even remotely understand [or ever understood] classical Arabic??? The meanings not even translatable??? And if the Qur'an did actually come down form Allah in '"classical Arabic" they why are there so many NON Arabic words in the Qur'an???? Wasn't Allah proficient in classical Arabic?? And why so many abrogations? Couldn't Allah get it right the first itme?
                Muhammad declared that Arabic is the divine language (that is it is the language of Allah) and proclaimed on numerous occasions that the qur'an was sent down in Arabic (surahs 12:2; 13:37; 39:28; 42:7; 46:127[1]), and surah 41:44 is often put forth by Muslims as evidence that there are no non-Arabic words contained within the qur'an.

                But the fact is that there are many foreign words and phrases that are used in the qur'an -- some of which have no Arabic equivalent, and others that do. For example the Egyptian word for king, "Pharaoh," is used used nearly 50 times and the Accadian word for garden, "Eden" (which does have an Arabic equivalent -- "Janna"), is used something like two dozen times.

                Other words that have been borrowed from foreign languages include Assyrian (Abraham or Ibrahim, with an Arabic equivalent in "Abu Raheem), Aramaic, Greek, Persian, Syriac, Hebrew, and Christian Ethiopic. All in all there are something like 270 foreign loanwords to be found in that so-called perfect Arabic document

                So why are these words borrowed? Why are these words from other languages found in the supposedly pure Arabic qur'an? Was Allah unable to sufficiently express himself in the perfect language of Arabic?

                Muslim scholars have sought to explain away this inconsistency by claiming, like the Arab philologist, lexicographer and founder of tajwid (rules for the correct pronunciation of words in the qur'an), Abu Ubaid al-Qasim bin Salam c.770-838 A.D. did, that those words had been incorporated into Arabic and therefore are Arabic.

                That would be like Americans claiming that the incalculable number of non-English words incorporated into our language aren't really foreign loanwords at all but instead are really English words. It also glosses over that many of these words already had Arabic equivalents like those in the examples provided above.



                1. All in all there are something like 9 places in the qur'an where this claim is made
                Last edited by rogue06; Yesterday, 07:25 PM.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post

                  Muhammad declared that Arabic is the divine language (that is it is the language of Allah) and proclaimed on numerous occasions that the qur'an was sent down in Arabic (surahs 12:2; 13:37; 39:28; 42:7; 46:127[1]), and surah 41:44 is often put forth by Muslims as evidence that there are no non-Arabic words contained within the qur'an.

                  But the fact is that there are many foreign words and phrases that are used in the qur'an -- some of which have no Arabic equivalent, and others that do. For example the Egyptian word for king, "Pharaoh," is used used nearly 50 times and the Accadian word for garden, "Eden" (which does have an Arabic equivalent -- "Janna"), is used something like two dozen times.

                  Other words that have been borrowed from foreign languages include Assyrian (Abraham or Ibrahim, with an Arabic equivalent in "Abu Raheem), Aramaic, Greek, Persian, Syriac, Hebrew, and Christian Ethiopic. All in all there are something like 270 foreign loanwords to be found in that so-called perfect Arabic document

                  So why are these words borrowed? Why are these words from other languages found in the supposedly pure Arabic qur'an? Was Allah unable to sufficiently express himself in the perfect language of Arabic?

                  Muslim scholars have sought to explain away this inconsistency by claiming, like the Arab philologist, lexicographer and founder of tajwid (rules for the correct pronunciation of words in the qur'an), Abu Ubaid al-Qasim bin Salam c.770-838 A.D. did, that those words had been incorporated into Arabic and therefore are Arabic.

                  That would be like Americans claiming that the incalculable number of non-English words incorporated into our language aren't really foreign loanwords at all but instead are really English words. It also glosses over that many of these words already had Arabic equivalents like those in the examples provided above.



                  1. All in all there are something like 9 places in the qur'an where this claim is made
                  Actually, according to information I have read, there are some passages in the Qur'an that make no sense to anyone but if read like the passages is in Syriac it does make sense. BUT DOESN'T MEAN AT ALL LIKE THE ARABIC WOULD MEAN!!

                  Comment

                  Related Threads

                  Collapse

                  Topics Statistics Last Post
                  Started by rogue06, 11-13-2020, 09:15 AM
                  35 responses
                  184 views
                  0 likes
                  Last Post rogue06
                  by rogue06
                   
                  Started by Christian3, 10-25-2020, 07:17 AM
                  8 responses
                  54 views
                  0 likes
                  Last Post Trucker
                  by Trucker
                   
                  Started by Trucker, 10-23-2020, 11:09 AM
                  43 responses
                  287 views
                  0 likes
                  Last Post rogue06
                  by rogue06
                   
                  Started by JohnnyP, 01-23-2014, 04:30 PM
                  5 responses
                  7,408 views
                  1 like
                  Last Post Dan Zebiri  
                  Working...
                  X