Hmmmmmmmm ...

[Trucker]

Seems the Muslims are all laying low and having nothing to say.

Orders from headquarters???

[rogue06]

Seems the Muslims are all laying low and having nothing to say.

Orders from headquarters???

Can you be more specific?

Laying low because of what?

The U.S. elections?

The Bahrain-UAE-Israel Treaty?

Tampa Bay being in the World Series?

[Dan Zebiri]

Well, more like the headquarters of bankruptcy of ideas and answers to honest questions!

Every since in June, Dr. Yasir Qadhi refused to, or couldn't, give a satisfactory answer and reply to Mohd.Hijab - his muslim missionary counterpart, Muslims have clammed and shut up from responding to questions about the 'preservation of the koran' which, in fact is very dubious and doubtful.

The traditional and standard narrative of the Koran HAS HOLES IN IT! So admitted sheikh Y. Qadhi - the intellectual from Houston, Texas.

Here is the YouTube clip that explains Qadhi's reluctance to confirm the perfect preservation of islam's Koran, enjoy, and we can discuss this subject without fear or favor here!

Here, Dr.Jay Smith analyses an interview between Y.Qadhi and Mohd.Hijab, an aggressive muslim evangelist and da'i. The outcome is very unsatisfactory to M.Hijab who kept pressing Qadhi for a clear answer which Qadhi kept resisting and even waffles many times.

https://youtu.be/vstGbZkjUcw

Eastern muslim scholars are already embracing western scholastic conclusions about the Qiraat, ahruf, masahif and other aspects of koranic analysis and studies.

In the tradition of Muslims Ali Dashti and even ibn Khaldun, there are brave modern muslim scholars who are unsure of the preservation and reliability of their Koran AND are saying so, themselves.

Cheers.

Seems the Muslims are all laying low and having nothing to say.

Orders from headquarters???

[Trucker]

[QUOTE=rogue06;n1199288]Can you be more specific? /[QUOTE]

I was fishing for comments from some of the very well informed posters on this board..

Laying low because of what?

I don't know. Could be several reasons.

The U.S. elections?

Could be but I would doubt that as a reason.

The Bahrain-UAE-Israel Treaty?

That "Treaty", especially if is is a "Treaty" doesn't pass the small test. I have not seen the "Treaty". Have you? .

Tampa Bay being in the World Series?

I'll pretend I didn't see that.

[Trucker]

Well, more like the headquarters of bankruptcy of ideas and answers to honest questions![/

Every since in June, Dr. Yasir Qadhi refused to, or couldn't, give a satisfactory answer and reply to Mohd.Hijab - his muslim missionary counterpart, Muslims have clammed and shut up from responding to questions about the 'preservation of the koran' which, in fact is very dubious and doubtful.

The traditional and standard narrative of the Koran HAS HOLES IN IT! So admitted sheikh Y. Qadhi - the intellectual from Houston, Texas.

Certainly. In fact, I don't think it takes an intellectual to see some of them. But I doubt that would cause a sudden silence from all the Muslims posting here.

Here is the YouTube clip that explains Qadhi's reluctance to confirm the perfect preservation of islam's Koran, enjoy, and we can discuss this subject without fear or favor here!

Here, Dr.Jay Smith analyses an interview between Y.Qadhi and Mohd.Hijab, an aggressive muslim evangelist and da'i. The outcome is very unsatisfactory to M.Hijab who kept pressing Qadhi for a clear answer which Qadhi kept resisting and even waffles many times.

https://youtu.be/vstGbZkjUcw

Thanks.

Eastern muslim scholars are already embracing western scholastic conclusions about the Qiraat, ahruf, masahif and other aspects of koranic analysis and studies.

How about the Muslim Brotherhood and all their front groups? Do you know of any of those groups or their leaders who have provided any indication of softening their stand or abandoning their commitments to the Qur'an, the [so called] Prophet, or sharia?

In the tradition of Muslims Ali Dashti and even ibn Khaldun, there are brave modern muslim scholars who are unsure of the preservation and reliability of their Koran AND are saying so, themselves.

Yes their are. But there are also numerous committed Islamists. and they are here and now working for [among other things] "Social Justice.

[Christian3]

Seems the Muslims are all laying low and having nothing to say.

Orders from headquarters???

In my experience Muslims leave a conversation when they have been shown their theology and arguments do not work.

So, they are not laying low; they have simply run out of explanations that work.

No one is telling them to leave conversations.

[Trucker]

In my experience Muslims leave a conversation when they have been shown their theology and arguments do not work.

So, they are not laying low; they have simply run out of explanations that work.

No one is telling them to leave conversations.

Could be. But it seems to me that with all the riots, BLM, Antifa, and so on one sees in the headlines an hears on the news there is an obvious dearth of news about or from the Islamists.. Especially when one considers that the defund the police and community policing movements fits right in with the imposing of sharii. And that is the goal of the Muslim Brotherhood!!! Seems keeping a low profile at this time just might be a smart tactic for the Brotherhood!!!

[Christian3]

Could be. But it seems to me that with all the riots, BLM, Antifa, and so on one sees in the headlines an hears on the news there is an obvious dearth of news about or from the Islamists.. Especially when one considers that the defund the police and community policing movements fits right in with the imposing of sharii. And that is the goal of the Muslim Brotherhood!!! Seems keeping a low profile at this time just might be a smart tactic for the Brotherhood!!!

Well, there would have to be some announcement to that effect to all Muslims in the US and I don't see anything of the kind.

[Trucker]

Well, there would have to be some announcement to that effect to all Muslims in the US and I don't see anything of the kind.

Surely you're not suggesting we have access to every instruction passed within or between the Muslim Brotherhood's numerous affiliations? Besides, they are absolutely brilliant when it comes to wording statements so as to mean one thing to us while meaning something else entirely to the knowledgeable Muslim.

[siam]

Christianity is considered an "organized religion"
"Organized religion (or organised religion—see spelling differences), also known as institutional religion, is religion in which belief systems and rituals are systematically arranged and formally established. Organized religion is typically characterised by an official doctrine (or dogma), a hierarchical or bureaucratic leadership structure, and a codification of rules and practices."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_religion

...in some definitions, Islam is also grouped under "organized religion" and this may be partially correct---but it (Islam) does not have much of a "hierarchical / bureaucratic leadership structure"...and some go as far as to say it is an anti-clerical (---which is going too far, IMO)
"During the European Enlightenment, a number of authors presented Muhammad in a similar vein, as an anticlerical hero; some saw Islam as a pure form of monotheism close to philosophic Deism and the Quran as a rational paean to the Creator."
https://aeon.co/ideas/muhammad-an-an...-enlightenment

This is because the concept that all humanity is of equivalent value is derived from the core doctrine of Tawheed. The only "supreme clergy" is the Quran....which is guidance from God, directly to all humanity, individually and collectively.

However, such lack of structured organization can be problematic in the Modern era where a "Nation-state" controls laws. So some countries have an "office" of "Mufti" that can act as a representative.
"The Grand Mufti (also called Chief Mufti, State Mufti and Supreme Mufti) is the head of regional muftis, Islamic jurisconsults, of a state. The office originated in the early modern era in the Ottoman empire and has been later adopted in a number of modern countries."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Mufti
Some countries have an "official organization" that issues statements ...etc....on behalf of a Muslim community to the general public or on behalf of the State to a Muslim community...

[siam]

"...Nothing to say"

Because there have not been any topics of interest to me.

With regards to the Quran and Dan's objections---that discussion has already ended in the other thread---repeating it is not going to change anyone's position...

That does not mean that there are no questions for a Muslim. The "guidance/message" of the Quran does raise ethico-moral questions that require contemplation and reflection....as do all wisdom teachings.

[Trucker]

Christianity is considered an "organized religion"
"Organized religion (or organised religion—see spelling differences), also known as institutional religion, is religion in which belief systems and rituals are systematically arranged and formally established. Organized religion is typically characterised by an official doctrine (or dogma), a hierarchical or bureaucratic leadership structure, and a codification of rules and practices."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_religion

...in some definitions, Islam is also grouped under "organized religion" and this may be partially correct---but it (Islam) does not have much of a "hierarchical / bureaucratic leadership structure"...and some go as far as to say it is an anti-clerical (---which is going too far, IMO)
"During the European Enlightenment, a number of authors presented Muhammad in a similar vein, as an anticlerical hero; some saw Islam as a pure form of monotheism close to philosophic Deism and the Quran as a rational paean to the Creator."

Not all that different from today since there are today confused [or deliberately deceitful] writers writing many silly and misleading things about Muhammad and Islam.

This is because the concept that all humanity is of equivalent value is derived from the core doctrine of Tawheed.

Now that word [Tweed] is interesting. From whence did it come??? Mind to enlighten us on that issue?

[I would appreciate the Christians here allowing a Muslim to address these specific questions for now, please.]

The only "supreme clergy" is the Quran....which is guidance from God, directly to all humanity, individually and collectively.

Strange. I thought it was alleged to have came from Muhammad's Allah via an alleged Gabriel and then from the lips of Muhammad.

[Trucker]

[QUOTE=Trucker;n1199659]Now that word [Tweed] is interesting. From whence did it come??? Mind to enlighten us on that issue?


Typo alert .... I meant to say tawheed. I had no intention of misspelling the word. The questions concerning the word stand. From whence did it come??? Mind to enlighten us on that issue?

I think it important that the Muslim[s] address this issue.

[Dan Zebiri]

Well, they are really not mainly objections, siam but real Questions put to you which you just ran away from answering.

In one of your posts you claimed that "both Christians and muslims will enter paradise.." When I asked you for proof of that, it was just DEAFENING SILENCE from you, as USUAL!

How can the koran or islam naively claim that "Christians and muslims will enter paradise" merely based on their "good intentions and character"? (this argument muslims promote to dismiss the redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the Cross - that saves Humanity from damnation AS Jesus Himself taught and declared unapologetically and proven by historical facts of AN ACTUAL CRUCIFIXION OF CHRIST 2000 years ago).

Actually, both the koran and Hadith deny what you say about Muslims and Christians entering paradise, because nobody knows if either OR any of them can enter paradise in Allah's eyes:


“Whomsoever Allah guides, he is the one who follows the right way; and whomsoever He
causes to ERR, these are the losers. Many are the Jinns and men WE HAVE MADE FOR HELL!”

- Sura al-A’raf 7:178-179

“My counsel will not profit you if I were minded to advise you, if Allah’s will is to keep you
astray. He is your Lord and unto Him ye will be brought back.”
- Sura Hud 11:34

“Allah leads astray whomsoever He will and guides whomsoever he will.”
- Sura Ibrahim 14:4

Hadith No: 22 al-Qudsi
Narrated/Authority of Abdur-Rahman bin Qatada As-Salami

I heard the Prophet (SAW) saying: Allah created Adam, took his progeny from his
back and said: These will go to Hell and these will go to Paradise. Somebody said,
the narrator added: O Messenger of Allah, what shall we do then? The
Prophet (SAW) said: You will do (act) according to your destiny.

(This Hadith is good and narrated by Ahmad).
▪ https://ahadith.co.uk/110ahadithqudsi.php

In the sunni ahadith, it is God/Allah that decides capriciously who enters heaven/paradise or
goes to hell. Not by the 'good intentions or character' of ANYBODY. This is verified and
according to the Islamic authentic Hadith like the following:

"Verily Allah created Adam and then rubbed his back with His right hand and took out
a progeny from him and said: I created these for Paradise and with the actions of the
inmates of Paradise which they will do. Afterwards he rubbed his back with His hand
and took out a progeny from him and said: I CREATED THESE FOR HELL and
with the actions of the inmates of Hell which they will do".

- Mishkat al-Masabih, Vol.3, p.107

Therefore, it is reliably shown said that the Allah of Islam does not give nor provide any
evidence of assurance of entering paradise/heaven by any means to either Christian, Jew or Muslim! On the other hand, there is
every chance and possibility that he sends you to hell (Jahannam) just by his whim and fancy.

"...Nothing to say"

Because there have not been any topics of interest to me.

With regards to the Quran and Dan's objections---that discussion has already ended in the other thread---repeating it is not going to change anyone's position...

That does not mean that there are no questions for a Muslim. The "guidance/message" of the Quran does raise ethico-moral questions that require contemplation and reflection....as do all wisdom teachings.

[Dan Zebiri]

I also asked you about the "preservation of the Koran" based on the evidence of Muslims' doubts and rejection of Quranic authenticity per the following:

The Saudi muslims call for amendments to your Koran of THOUSANDS OF SCRIBAL ERRORS-

https://www.memri.org/reports/articl...ic-texts-light

Arab Muslims want Koran without errors! :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUVH...ature=youtu.be

Yasir Qadhi and Mohd Hijab delete 25-30 minutes of embarassing discussion about the non-preservation of the Koran, too damaging to Islam it just to be REMOVED! THAT THE STANDARD NARRATIVE of the Koran has HOLES IN IT!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJs95LZX9tw

I asked: Why is the evidence of the IMPERFECT KORAN TODAY so overwhelming? That Dr.Qadhi had to delete his enitre interview?? Siam never addressed this question (NOT an 'objection')!

The Koran today is NOT PRESERVED AUTHENTICALLY AT ALL..this is the conclusion of current Muslim scholars of ahruf and qiraat and all the inconsistencies and glaring INCOMPATIBILITIES between them.

Subscribe to Dr. Dan Brubaker's YouTube channel on evidences for "VARIANT QURANS" HERE:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMa5tqfdNzw

Evidence for missing words, sentences ad multiple, conflicting and diverging qiraats ALL debunk that today's koran is "preserved 100% as the very first one". This sales pitch DOESN'T WORK ANY MORE, NOR does it hold water for any thinking person, today!

"...Nothing to say"

Because there have not been any topics of interest to me.

With regards to the Quran and Dan's objections---that discussion has already ended in the other thread---repeating it is not going to change anyone's position...

That does not mean that there are no questions for a Muslim. The "guidance/message" of the Quran does raise ethico-moral questions that require contemplation and reflection....as do all wisdom teachings.