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Papa Francis prays facing Mecca in mosque

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  • Papa Francis prays facing Mecca in mosque

    There's bound to be a good explanation for this.

  • #2
    here read this dialogue from CBS news and see another take on it. However this is not an opportunity for debate just to read from primary news:
    Originally posted by cbsnews
    The Orthodox make up barely one percent of the population of Turkey, and feel increasingly under pressure in a country that is 98 percent Muslim.


    The first event of the day, a visit to the 17-century Sultan Ahmet mosque (famously known as the Blue Mosque), served to undercut some of the pressure the Pope is feeling from his hosts who are concerned over what they see as growing "Islamophobic paranoia" in the West.

    Turkish religious officials have expressed concern at the increase in attacks on mosques in Europe.

    CBS correspondent Allen Pizzey reports a theme of the trip is religious freedom, which the Pope defined as "an eloquent sign of peace."

    Francis prayed alongside Rahmi Yaran, the Grand Mufti of Istanbul, who had his palms turned toward the sky in a Muslim prayer.

    "May God accept it," Yaran told the pope at the conclusion of a poignant moment of Christian-Muslim understanding.
    A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
    George Bernard Shaw

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    • #3
      Um, aren't mosques oriented toward Mecca?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        Um, aren't mosques oriented toward Mecca?
        If a building is oriented in a certain direction, does it mean that however you stand in it you're necessarily facing that direction?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
          here read this dialogue from CBS news and see another take on it. However this is not an opportunity for debate just to read from primary news:
          I don't recall making this thread here. Did you move it, perchance?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Paprika View Post
            I don't recall making this thread here. Did you move it, perchance?
            Moderated By: Bill the Cat

            No. the mod for that forum did. Since this is talking about Catholicism AND Islam, it fits in Comp Rel

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Paprika View Post
              Papa Francis prays facing Mecca in mosque

              There's bound to be a good explanation for this.
              Is your objection to inter-religious dialogue and worship? Would you also object to Jews and Christians praying the Our Father together? Would you also object to Jews and Muslims praying together, assuming they agreed upon a prayer?
              βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
              ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

              אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                There's bound to be a good explanation for this.
                Basically it is most likely a personal effort to show respect and acknowledge other religions 'diplomatically,' and does not change nor reflect the underlying Doctrine and Dogma of the Roman Church. This change in improving PR and diplomacy outside the Roman Church is mainly a product of the Vatican II.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                  Is your objection to inter-religious dialogue or worship? Would you also object to Jews and Christians praying the Our Father together? Would you also object to Jews and Muslims praying together, assuming they agreed upon a prayer?
                  When I read the title at first, I was a bit surprised. Purposefully praying towards Mecca as part of inter-religious dialogue could easily be taken as affirmation of (or maybe even submission to) Islam. That might not be a big deal if you're just Joe Average, but when we're talking the pope, the leader of the largest Christian community in the world, that's pretty "yikes!" type stuff. But then, after reading the article, and Catholicity and Teal's posts, yeah, it makes sense that if you're in a mosque you're probably going to be oriented towards Mecca. So its not like he looked for the direction of Mecca and intentionally turned that way in a ritualistic sense. That puts a bit of a different spin on things as far I'm concerned.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                    Is your objection to inter-religious dialogue and worship?
                    No.

                    I do see, however, some problems with certain inter-religious worship practices.

                    Would you also object to Jews and Christians praying the Our Father together?
                    I don't see any reason in general to object, though in specific situations it may not be a good thing.

                    Would you also object to Jews and Muslims praying together, assuming they agreed upon a prayer?
                    Why should I? I don't belong to either group, after all.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                      When I read the title at first, I was a bit surprised. Purposefully praying towards Mecca as part of inter-religious dialogue could easily be taken as affirmation of (or maybe even submission to) Islam...it makes sense that if you're in a mosque you're probably going to be oriented towards Mecca. So its not like he looked for the direction of Mecca and intentionally turned that way in a ritualistic sense.
                      How does it make a difference? Are you suggesting that the Pope had no idea that he would be praying facing Mecca? If not, then he would be purposefully praying in that direction.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                        No.

                        I do see, however, some problems with certain inter-religious worship practices.

                        I don't see any reason in general to object, though in specific situations it may not be a good thing.

                        Why should I? I don't belong to either group, after all.
                        Is there anything specific that you are objecting to here?
                        βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                        ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                        אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
                          here read this dialogue from CBS news and see another take on it. However this is not an opportunity for debate just to read from primary news:
                          And what point is this supposed to make?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                            When I read the title at first, I was a bit surprised. Purposefully praying towards Mecca as part of inter-religious dialogue could easily be taken as affirmation of (or maybe even submission to) Islam. That might not be a big deal if you're just Joe Average, but when we're talking the pope, the leader of the largest Christian community in the world, that's pretty "yikes!" type stuff. But then, after reading the article, and Catholicity and Teal's posts, yeah, it makes sense that if you're in a mosque you're probably going to be oriented towards Mecca. So its not like he looked for the direction of Mecca and intentionally turned that way in a ritualistic sense. That puts a bit of a different spin on things as far I'm concerned.
                            I think anyone who infers that the pope is specifically affirming Islam rather than Christianity or that he is promoting submission to Islam is probably mistaken.
                            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                              How does it make a difference? Are you suggesting that the Pope had no idea that he would be praying facing Mecca? If not, then he would be purposefully praying in that direction.
                              Well, as I said, it makes a difference because its not like he looked for Mecca and then ritually turned in that direction. You'd have to go out of your way to turn a different direction NOT to pray in the direction of Mecca in a mosque, and that'd be a little weird. And no, for the record, I'm not suggesting the Pope had no idea mosques face Mecca, its just something I, myself, momentarily forgot to consider after reading your headline. After reading Teal's reply, I was like, "oh yeah, duh".

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