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It REALLY is the religion of peace

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  • #16
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    I believe this is called "poisoning the well." I thought you were better than that - and you know that we have quite a variety of posters here.

    The Muslim sects that eschew violence are in the extreme minority. That many Muslims are peaceful has more to do with human nature than anything written in the Koran AFAICT. Islam was born in treachery and conquest, and has largely been spread through the same. Non-Muslims living in Muslim countries are usually allowed to live in peace, as long as they pay the jizya like good little dhimmis and keep their heads down. Whitewash all you want, but the Armenian genocide is but the latest large-scale occurrence of has happened several times throughout history in Muslim-dominated areas - and the Sunni-Shia conflict has been a bloody one through the ages as well.

    It would take a fundamental shift in Islamic thought to make the abrogation of the later, more violent suras by the peaceful early suras anything like a majority.
    From what I've read Islam was becoming scientifically advanced during the Dark Ages,but exactly due to their own genius but because of the other Nations they conquered and forced to convert.
    One of their greatest minds at the time Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi was considered a heretic based on his personal and philosophical views on Islam.
    "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
    "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
    Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      I believe this is called "poisoning the well." I thought you were better than that - and you know that we have quite a variety of posters here.

      The Muslim sects that eschew violence are in the extreme minority. That many Muslims are peaceful has more to do with human nature than anything written in the Koran AFAICT. Islam was born in treachery and conquest, and has largely been spread through the same. Non-Muslims living in Muslim countries are usually allowed to live in peace, as long as they pay the jizya like good little dhimmis and keep their heads down. Whitewash all you want, but the Armenian genocide is but the latest large-scale occurrence of has happened several times throughout history in Muslim-dominated areas - and the Sunni-Shia conflict has been a bloody one through the ages as well.

      It would take a fundamental shift in Islamic thought to make the abrogation of the later, more violent suras by the peaceful early suras anything like a majority.
      It wasn't meant to be a negative comment. It IS a conservative Christian site and most people who post here ARE conservative. Therefore there will be a preponderance of conservative opinion on Islam here. It's one opinion and it's valid. Poisoning the well? Paranoid much?

      The Muslim sects that eschew violence are in the extreme minority.
      Could you post a reference for this please?

      Let's remember that other religions have been used to justify mass slaughter. In the Serbian ethnic cleansing (of muslims) Serb militia pasted pictures of the Madonna on their rifles. And so it goes.

      I would argue most people, regardless of their religion, want to live in peace with their families and their neighbours. There will always be hotheads and extremists and it is they who capture the headlines.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
        Sorry, but because you're on a conservative Christian site, you're going to get a conservative Christian response. That's fine if that's all you're looking for.

        I suggest you look at a variety of responses: here

        and here to balance some of the responses that I know are coming.
        During the beginning Muhammad definitely tolerated other religions when Islam began because he had no power, but that all changed when he returned from Mecca.
        Once that happened his whole outlook on "tolerance" changed and the only faiths that were "tolerated" were either Christians or Jews, and even that had a downside.
        "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
        "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
        Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
          It wasn't meant to be a negative comment. It IS a conservative Christian site and most people who post here ARE conservative. Therefore there will be a preponderance of conservative opinion on Islam here. It's one opinion and it's valid. Poisoning the well? Paranoid much?



          Could you post a reference for this please?

          Let's remember that other religions have been used to justify mass slaughter. In the Serbian ethnic cleansing (of muslims) Serb militia pasted pictures of the Madonna on their rifles. And so it goes.

          I would argue most people, regardless of their religion, want to live in peace with their families and their neighbours. There will always be hotheads and extremists and it is they who capture the headlines.
          If you're just going to continue to say things like "well this religion did it too", that's honestly not my point for making this thread. The question is, is the faith of Islam based on peace or not?
          "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
          "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
          Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Cerealman View Post
            If you're just going to continue to say things like "well this religion did it too", that's honestly not my point for making this thread. The question is, is the faith of Islam based on peace or not?
            From what I understand, the word "Islam" is not translated "peace", but "surrender" or "submission".
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Cerealman View Post
              If you're just going to continue to say things like "well this religion did it too", that's honestly not my point for making this thread. The question is, is the faith of Islam based on peace or not?
              It is also important to note that with Christianity one has to behave in a manner that is diametrically opposed to what we are told we should do in order to forcibly convert others. In stark contrast with Islam which mandates being spread by coercion if other means don't work.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                From what I understand, the word "Islam" is not translated "peace", but "surrender" or "submission".


                Some have unsuccessfully tried to claim that the Arabic word "Islam" is derived from the Arabic word “Al-Salaam” which means peace. But this is incorrect. In fact, the root of Islam is "al-silm" which means "submission" or "surrender." It is understood to mean "submission to Allah." While they could argue that surrendering to Allah brings peace, that is not what the definition is. Mohammed did not teach peace and tolerance, but instead led armies and ordered the assassination of his enemies.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post


                  Some have unsuccessfully tried to claim that the Arabic word "Islam" is derived from the Arabic word “Al-Salaam” which means peace. But this is incorrect. In fact, the root of Islam is "al-silm" which means "submission" or "surrender." It is understood to mean "submission to Allah." While they could argue that surrendering to Allah brings peace, that is not what the definition is. Mohammed did not teach peace and tolerance, but instead led armies and ordered the assassination of his enemies.
                  Yes, and there have been Christian armies too, and Hindu armies etc. In Christianity there is a similar concept of surrendering to Jesus to attain peace.

                  I think we need to remember the cultural and historical environs of Islam to understand how it could not be as compatible with modernity as Christianity is. That said, this is not an excuse for Islam. It has much to answer for. I just don't see it is particularly worse than any other ancient faith.

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                  • #24
                    Faith in Christ vs. Faith in Allah do not even come close to being seen alike as their forms of attaining it are totally different.
                    "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
                    "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
                    Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cerealman View Post
                      Faith in Christ vs. Faith in Allah do not even come close to being seen alike as their forms of attaining it are totally different.
                      As is Buddhism and Hinduism.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
                        As is Buddhism and Hinduism.
                        The focus is Islam and if you want to say something about Christianity go ahead,but it must go father than "but they did it too".
                        If not you can stop posting here.
                        "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
                        "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
                        Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
                          As is Buddhism and Hinduism.
                          What is your opinion on the crusades?Were the Christians at that time correct to go to war with the Muslims?
                          They(muslims) were forcibly conquering other countries and killing those that did not convert. Were the Templars a necessary force or not?
                          "Kahahaha! Let's get lunatic!"-Add LP
                          "And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin is pride that apes humility"-Samuel Taylor Coleridge
                          Oh ye of little fiber. Do you not know what I've done for you? You will obey. ~Cerealman for Prez.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
                            Yes, and there have been Christian armies too, and Hindu armies etc. In Christianity there is a similar concept of surrendering to Jesus to attain peace.
                            I don't deny this but as I pointed out in the post before the one you responded to:
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            It is also important to note that with Christianity one has to behave in a manner that is diametrically opposed to what we are told we should do in order to forcibly convert others. In stark contrast with Islam which mandates being spread by coercion if other means don't work.

                            From the start Muslims are encouraged to spread their religion at the point of the sword. When Christians do this (as they undeniably have) they go directly against what Christianity teaches.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cerealman View Post
                              What is your opinion on the crusades?Were the Christians at that time correct to go to war with the Muslims?
                              They(muslims) were forcibly conquering other countries and killing those that did not convert. Were the Templars a necessary force or not?
                              You're getting cranky at me for pointing out ALL religions have skeletons in their closet and therefore asking if ONE particular religion is worse than the others is a bit silly. It's too broad a brush and how each religion 'works'. It's necessary to look at a lot of historical and cultural parameters to 'judge', if we must, a religion as a whole. My question is, what's the point?

                              As to the Crusades, again, a lot of muddled history there. You may recall when Jerusalem was in Christian hands, Jews were forbidden to enter. Christians through their rubbish on the temple forecourt. Under Islamic rule, Jews were allowed to enter and worship. I have recollection of reading (but can't find it now) that during at least some of the Muslim occupation, Jerusalem was open to both Christians and Jews. The question then becomes, who took the best care of Jerusalem as a Holy City? Who is 'entitled' to Jerusalem when it has holy places of three religions? Thinking about those questions leads me to believe that, no, Christians at the time were not justified in going to war when negotiation was possible. St Francis certainly got in and out without harm.

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_of_Assisi

                              Since I'm causing you anger I won't post anymore except to direct posts to me. Have fun.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Cerealman View Post
                                What is your opinion on the crusades?Were the Christians at that time correct to go to war with the Muslims?
                                They(muslims) were forcibly conquering other countries and killing those that did not convert. Were the Templars a necessary force or not?
                                In many ways the crusades were a belated reaction to Muslim aggression. An aggression that continued long after the crusades ended as can be seen by the seizing of southeastern Europe including two unsuccessful sieges of Vienna (1529 and 1683).

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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