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Is not the Quran a 100% preserved?

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  • Is not the Quran a 100% preserved?

    Proverbs 30:5,
    Every word of God is pure: . . .

    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  • #2
    at least...some of the facts in the video are correct---which is commendable, but the presumption, definitions and conclusions are all incorrect.
    I am not particularly concerned what a Non-Muslim thinks about the Quran...so I will explain the Muslim pov/narrative......

    1) The Prophet(pbuh) could not write---the Quran was recited by the Prophet and memorized by the audience....some of whom also wrote it down.
    today---a vast number of Muslims still memorize the whole Quran, word for word, and recitation competitions are held in many countries. Even if all print copies of the Quran were destroyed---the Ummah would be able to reproduce the exact Quranic text (word for word) again....
    2) The Surah are not neatly divided into Meccan/Medinan because some surah/verses came peicemeal and the Prophet told where they would go---so some Meccan Surahs have some Medinan verses and Medinan surah have some Meccan verses....etc....the division of Meccan/Medinan is simply a rough designation in order to give the Quran a historical anchor....The Quran is as the Prophet (or rather God) intended it to be.
    (So when some Non-Muslim professors try to break up the Quran in order to teach it "chronologically"...they are incorrect and doing a disservice (mutilation) to the book they are trying to teach about....)
    3) The Quran is One---but there are many styles of recitation (Tajwid) from the beginning (time of the Prophet)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tajwid
    an Muslim explaantion-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtzLKJqQojU

    The Muslim narrative of the compilation and preservation of the Quran
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2k_XsdY68g
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICu3ITHnBoM

    There have been studies of the thematic links and intersections of the Quranic verses and surahs---some scholars have shown the thematic pairing of the surah as well as larger thematic groupings.

    IMO, The test to see if the Quran is preserved or not is pretty simple---get several Quran memorizers (Hafiz) and check to see if their recitation can reproduce the Quranic text, word for word, without error....I would say---it would take a "miracle" to destroy the Arabic Quran....Even if an intentionally corrupted version of the Arabic Quran were printed by some non-Muslim---it would be rejected by the Ummah.
    Last edited by siam; 08-14-2017, 02:06 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you siam,

      There is a Psalm,
      Psalm 119:89,
      For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

      God told His prophet Isaiah regarding His word,
      Isaiah 55:11,
      . . . So shall My word be that goeth forth out of My mouth: it shall not return unto Me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it. . . .


      That God is able to preserve His word is not at issue.

      God told Moses,
      Deuteronomy 8:3,
      . . . know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every [word] that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.


      All men whether believer or not must live by all that God speaks.

      God does not change His word. That is at issue.
      . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

      Comment


      • #4
        The Sahih Hadith, and other early Islamic sources put the lie to siam's claim that everyone would have remembered the Koran perfectly.

        Sahih Muslim 2286: Abu Harb b. Abu al-Aswad reported on the authority of his father that Abu Musa al-Ash'ari sent for the reciters of Basra. They came to him and they were three hundred in number. They recited the Qur'an and he said: You are the best among the inhabitants of Basra, for you are the reciters among them. So continue to recite it. (But bear in mind) that your reciting for a long time may not harden your hearts as were hardened the hearts of those before you. We used to recite a surah which resembled in length and severity to (Surah) Bara'at. I have, however, forgotten it with the exception of this which I remember out of it: "If there were two valleys full of riches, for the son of Adam, he would long for a third valley, and nothing would fill the stomach of the son of Adam but dust." And we used to recite a surah which resembled one of the surahs of Musabbihat, and I have forgotten it, but remember (this much) out of it: "O people who believe, why do you say that which you do not practise" (lxi. 2) and "that is recorded in your necks as a witness (against you) and you would be asked about it on the Day of Resurrection" (xvii. 13).

        The person who was said by Mohammed to be the best person to do to to learn the Koran says that the version standardized by Uthman is "guilty of deceit".

        Narrated Masruq: Abdullah bin Mas'ud was mentioned before Abdullah bin Amr who said, "That is a man I still love, as I heard the Prophet (saw) saying, 'Learn the recitation of the Qur'an from four: from Abdullah bin Mas'ud - he started with him - Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifa, Mu'adh bin Jabal and Ubai bin Ka'b". (Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 5, p.96).

        'The people have been guilty of deceit in the reading of the Qur'an. I like it better to read according to the recitation of him (Prophet) whom I love more than that of Zayd Ibn Thabit. By Him besides Whom there is no god! I learnt more than seventy surahs from the lips of the Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, while Zayd Ibn Thabit was a youth, having two locks and playing with the youth". (Ibn Sa'd, Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir, Vol. 2, p.444)

        Zayd Ibn Thabit was the one commissioned by Uthman to compile the "official" Koran. He then went and had all other manuscripts burned. Which is not even a little bit fishy, right? Oh, and then Aisha's goat ate some verses that were supposed to be in the Koran, but are no longer there.

        Sahih Muslim 3422—Amra reported that she heard Aisha discussing fosterage which (makes marriage) unlawful; and she (Aisha) said: There was revealed in the Holy Qur'an ten clear sucklings, and then five clear (sucklings).



        Sahih Muslim 3417—Allah's Apostle said: Being suckled once or twice, or one suckling or two, do not make marriage unlawful.



        Sunan ibn Majah 1944—It was narrated that Aisha said: “The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed, and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.”

        These verses are known about because of Aisha, but they are not in the Koran today. From Suyuti Itqan we have the following.

        Abu ^Ubaid said: "IsnuTil b. Ibrahlm reported to us, from Ayyub, from Nafi\ from Ibn
        "Umar, who said: 'None of you should say that he has full knowledge of the Qur'an; how could
        he know what full knowledge is! So much of the Qur'an has passed him by! Let him say instead:
        'I have taken of the Qur'an that which was present."

        He also said: "Ibn Abu Maryam reported to us from Ibn Lahfa, from Abu '1-Aswad, from
        "Urwa b. '1-Zubair, that A'isha said: "During the time of the Prophet (s) two hundred verses of
        the chapter '1-Ahzab were recited but when compiling the Qur'an ^Uthman was only able to
        collect what now exists."

        He also said: Ismall b. Ja x far reported to us from '1-Mubarak b. Fudala, from ^Asim b.
        Abu '1-Nujud, from Zirr b. Hubaish who said: "'Ubayy b. Ka^b told me: 'How many verses do
        you count in the chapter '1-Ahzab? I said: '72 or 73 verses.' He said: At one time it had as many
        verses as '1-Baqara, including the verse on stoning which we used to recite.' I said: "What is the
        verse of stoning?' He said: 'If a married man or woman fornicates, stone them without hesitation;
        a fitting punishment from God. God is Mighty, and all Wise.'

        He also said: "Hajjaj reported to us from Ibn Juraij that: 'Ibn Abu Humaid informed me
        from Humaida b. Abu Yunus, who said: At the age of 80 my father recited to me, out of the
        mushaf of x A'isha: "Verily God and His angels send salutations to the Prophet. O! Ye who
        believe! Send salutations and greetings to him; and to those who pray in the first row.' This was
        before ^Uthman altered the Scripture
        ."

        Ibn Abu Hatim reports that Abu Musa 'l-\Asrf ari said: "We used to recite a chapter that
        we compared to the musabbihat, 2 but we were made to forget it, except for one verse which I
        memorized: 'O! Ye who believe! Speak not of that upon which you act not, lest it be recorded
        against you, and you be asked about it on the Day of Resurrection."

        He also said: Ibn Abu Maryam informed us, from Naff b. "Umar '1-Jumahi who said: 'Ibn
        Abu Mulaika informed me, from Miswar b. Makhrama who said: '"Umar said to x Abd '1-Rahman
        b. x Auf: "I have been unable to find a verse revealed to us "Strive now, as you have in the past.'
        Do you know of its whereabouts?' He replied: "It was effaced along with everything else that
        was effaced from the Qur'an
        .

        siam will likely ignore all of this, just like last time when I showed him all of the evidence of the Koran's disturbing levels of alteration. Especially for a book that claims to be perfectly preserved. He already knows much of what I posted here from elsewhere, so I can only see his recent post as dishonest.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          Thank you siam,

          There is a Psalm,
          Psalm 119:89,
          For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

          God told His prophet Isaiah regarding His word,
          Isaiah 55:11,
          . . . So shall My word be that goeth forth out of My mouth: it shall not return unto Me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it. . . .


          That God is able to preserve His word is not at issue.

          God told Moses,
          Deuteronomy 8:3,
          . . . know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every [word] that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.


          All men whether believer or not must live by all that God speaks.

          God does not change His word. That is at issue.
          Change or preserve----it is a matter of definition....how tight or loose the definition is---will change the argument.....What Muslims say is that the Quran is "preserved" in accordance with the Muslim narrative. What this means is that any variance (dialect, pronunciation) that exists, does so on the (traceable) authority of the Prophet. The timeframe between the death of the Prophet and the Uthmani codex is approx 20 years---many of the people who memorized the Quran when it was being revealed were still alive---as were the family and companions of the Prophet (pbuh)---therefore, if the Question is---was the Quran drastically changed from the time of the death of the Prophet to the time of the Uthmani codex----it is highly unlikely because it has not changed in the 1400 years following the Uthmani codex......

          From the Muslim pov---there are aspects of the timeless and timebound in Divine Guidance. What is timeless (Tawheed) does not change---what is timebound (Law) does change. This is the case with knowledge in general as well---all knowledge is from God---timeless wisdom does not change, acquired knowledge can change over time.....
          God has not changed the message/guidance of Tawheed from the time of Prophet Adam to all the Prophets and Wisdom Teachers he has sent to all humanity---both Biblical and non-Biblical (as in, those not mentioned in the Bible)

          This is how the Quran explains it---
          (Surah 40:78)
          Sahih International: And We have already sent messengers before you. Among them are those [whose stories] We have related to you, and among them are those [whose stories] We have not related to you. And it was not for any messenger to bring a sign [or verse] except by permission of Allah. So when the command of Allah comes, it will be concluded in truth, and the falsifiers will thereupon lose [all].

          Pickthall: Verily We sent messengers before thee, among them those of whom We have told thee, and some of whom We have not told thee; and it was not given to any messenger that he should bring a portent save by Allah's leave, but when Allah's commandment cometh (the cause) is judged aright, and the followers of vanity will then be lost.

          Yusuf Ali: We did aforetime send messengers before thee: of them there are some whose story We have related to thee, and some whose story We have not related to thee. It was not (possible) for any messenger to bring a sign except by the leave of Allah: but when the Command of Allah issued, the matter was decided in truth and justice, and there perished, there and then those who stood on Falsehoods.

          God is most compassionate and most merciful---he sent Guidance to all humanity and when some groups fell into error, he sent Prophets or Wisdom teachers to correct such errors, Jesus Christ would be an example of a Jewish Prophet sent to the Jews. The Buddha may (or not) be an example of a Wisdom Teacher sent to a group who had fallen into error.....ALL humanity is God's creation and God does not abandon the care and provision of all of it throughout time.

          Comment


          • #6
            @cerebrum123

            Please accept my apologies for ignoring your input. A lot of time and effort must have gone into researching it and I appreciate your interest---but these types of "proofs" have been refuted by other Muslims on plenty of other sites and I do not want to get into a copy/paste battle----particularly over ahadith which are a tedious read to begin with....and the body of ahadith work is very large and complex.
            A variety of perspectives always enhance knowledge...so thankyou for your posts here and elsewhere.....

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by siam View Post
              @cerebrum123

              Please accept my apologies for ignoring your input. A lot of time and effort must have gone into researching it and I appreciate your interest---but these types of "proofs" have been refuted by other Muslims on plenty of other sites and I do not want to get into a copy/paste battle----particularly over ahadith which are a tedious read to begin with....and the body of ahadith work is very large and complex.
              A variety of perspectives always enhance knowledge...so thankyou for your posts here and elsewhere.....
              At very minimum give a link to these so called "refutations", because I've done a lot of research at Muslim run sites, and all they due is ignore the issues, like you are doing now. The Koran itself is boring and tedious, but I go through it for research, and have shown you just how vile and evil its teachings are. My previous post was more for the benefit of others since I've already seen how you just ignore what doesn't fit your preferred beliefs.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by siam View Post
                <snip> ... if the Question is---was the Quran drastically changed from the time of the death of the Prophet to the time of the Uthmani codex----it is highly unlikely because it has not changed in the 1400 years following the Uthmani codex......
                . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                Comment


                • #9
                  This short video above explains the general Islamic narrative about the Quran accepted by Muslims.
                  The longer video links on the preservation of the Quran that I gave earlier, also explain the same generally accepted Islamic narrative---though they are long videos.

                  The 4 Caliphs after the Prophet (pbuh) are called the Rashidun and Uthman ibn Affan was the third of the 4---he was Caliph from approx 644 CE--656 CE and the territory rapidly expanded into (present day) Egypt to Afghanistan (more or less)---so, non-Arabic speaking people became part of the Ummah (community of believers). This was also a reason for the steps that Caliph Uthman took to preserve the integrity of the Quran.

                  (The period of the Rashidun Caliphs is approx 632 -- 661 CE)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So is it to be understood, with Uthman's restoration of the Quran, that it shows that Uthman had the very same authority as Muhammad?
                    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      So is it to be understood, with Uthman's restoration of the Quran, that it shows that Uthman had the very same authority as Muhammad?
                      No, he does not.

                      Prophet---In Islam, the term means Messenger (of God) and the "authority" comes from God---it cannot be self-designated or chosen by a group.
                      (That is why groups or individuals that have self-designated or group designated "Prophets" are not considered "Muslim" even though they themselves may use the label Islam/Muslim to refer to themselves)

                      The Rashidun (Rightfully Guided) Caliphs were Abu Bakr as Siddiq (632-634 CE), Umar ibn Khattab (634-644 CE), Uthman ibn Affan (644--656 CE) Ali ibn Abu Talib 656--661 CE).
                      These people were the Companions of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) and after his death became the leaders of the Community (chosen by consensus). They were NOT Prophets.

                      An outline of a general Islamic narrative of the compilation process is:-
                      The first "mushaf"---official book form---of the Quran was done under Caliph Abu Bakr. During the time of the Prophet, the Quran was written but not in book form and Caliph Abu Bakr had someone collect all these written works along with those who had memorized the whole of the Quran and authenticated it by establishing that a particular written work had been written in the presence of the Prophet himself and there was a witness who could corroborate this. All of this was also authenticated by the memorizers (Hafiz). (At this time, the various authorized dialects were common...the Prophet was a Quraish---and spoke the Quraishi dialect but authorized other dialects, pronouncitation also....)

                      By the time Caliph Uthman standardized what is now called the "Uthmani codex"---much of the work was already done---He checked everything so that each written work had 2 witnesses to corroborate that it had been written in the presence of the Prophet and where there were differences he standardized it (written mushaf) to the Quraishi form.

                      Quran---the revealed (speech) from God. This speech was revealed through the Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) but not everything the Prophet spoke was "God's speech"--- that is why there is a difference between Quran (God's speech) and ahadith, the speech of the Prophet. A translation is not the "Quran" (even if the title claims it to be) but a "tafsir" because it does not have the authority of the Prophet.
                      So---if a written work had a "mistake"---it is not "The Quran"---as in (authorized) God's speech. What is "God's speech" is determined through the agency of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh).
                      The Prophet could not read or write so when a revelation was written by someone, the scribe/writer often read it aloud to the Prophet for verification.
                      Differences in pronunciation that caused a slight difference in meaning were also recited to the Prophet for verification and approval.

                      The Islamic perspective is that the Quran we have today is the same Quran that was revealed to the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh).
                      The non-Muslim scholarly consensus is that the Quran Muslims use today can be traced back to what is called the "Uthmani codex". In time, as early Quran copies are discovered---the rest of the Muslim narrative may be verified.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by siam View Post
                        No, he does not.
                        <snip>
                        The Islamic perspective is that the Quran we have today is the same Quran that was revealed to the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh).
                        <snip>
                        So is the Uthman story a falsehood?

                        How do you know the Quran you now have is the Quran?
                        . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                          So is the Uthman story a falsehood?

                          How do you know the Quran you now have is the Quran?
                          I don't understand the first question...could u rephrase or elaborate....?....

                          It is generally accepted in academia among scholars and researchers that the Quran of today is the "Uthmani codex."
                          The Muslim narrative puts the first compilation to the time of Caliph Abu Bakr and the "Uthmani codex" used that compilation and the compilation process as a guide.....
                          The Quran is and was---since the beginning---memorized. Even today, the Quran memorizers can recite the whole Quran without aid of a text. As explained before, the Quran was memorized by a very large number of people during the time of the Prophet (pbuh)---one does not have to be able to read/write in order to memorize the Quran.

                          Questions about the Quran that may be important for Non-Muslims, may not hold the same degree of importance for Muslims.....Orientalism presumes that because the Bible had a certain historical trajectory...development process...that the Quran must also have followed the same course.....But European and/or Biblical history is not some default setting that everyone/everthing must be complied to...it only tells the specific story of Europe and/or Bible...other histories have their own stories...

                          As a Muslim, I am satisfied with the narrative of the Islamic tradition, I am satisfied with the Literary criticism and analysis that Muslim scholars have researched of the Quran, and as a reader of the Quran myself...I am satisfied with the content of the Quran as a Guidance and Wisdom teaching....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by siam View Post
                            I don't understand the first question...could u rephrase or elaborate....?....
                            If the Quran is as given through Muhammad then it cannot be the Uthman codex. If the Quran that now is, is the Uthman codex then it is not the Quran as was given through Muhammad.

                            It is generally accepted in academia among scholars and researchers that the Quran of today is the "Uthmani codex."
                            Then it is impossible to be the very Quran as given through Muhammad originally. Since Uthman was no prophet.

                            The Muslim narrative puts the first compilation to the time of Caliph Abu Bakr and the "Uthmani codex" used that compilation and the compilation process as a guide.....
                            Can you cite a Hadith for this claim?

                            The Quran is and was---since the beginning---memorized.
                            Then it is nothing more than an oral tradition not God-breathed writing upon being written.

                            Even today, the Quran memorizers can recite the whole Quran without aid of a text. As explained before, the Quran was memorized by a very large number of people during the time of the Prophet (pbuh)---one does not have to be able to read/write in order to memorize the Quran.
                            The 1st century Apostle Peter wrote that the written was more sure than the hearing of God's voice (2 Peter 1:19). Having heard God's voice from Heaven himself (2 Peter 1:17). (The context, 2 Peter 1:16-21).

                            Questions about the Quran that may be important for Non-Muslims, may not hold the same degree of importance for Muslims.....Orientalism presumes that because the Bible had a certain historical trajectory...development process...that the Quran must also have followed the same course.....But European and/or Biblical history is not some default setting that everyone/everthing must be complied to...it only tells the specific story of Europe and/or Bible...other histories have their own stories...
                            The Law as God gave the prophet Moses requires mankind to hear all that God has spoken (Deuteronomy 8:3).

                            As a Muslim, I am satisfied with the narrative of the Islamic tradition, I am satisfied with the Literary criticism and analysis that Muslim scholars have researched of the Quran, and as a reader of the Quran myself...I am satisfied with the content of the Quran as a Guidance and Wisdom teaching....
                            The claim that the Quran is God's word is not to be taken lightly (Deuteronomy 8:3).

                            But in the Proverb (30:5-6) the promise is made that God would make liars out of those who would falsely add to His words.
                            . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              If the Quran is as given through Muhammad then it cannot be the Uthman codex. If the Quran that now is, is the Uthman codex then it is not the Quran as was given through Muhammad.

                              Then it is impossible to be the very Quran as given through Muhammad originally. Since Uthman was no prophet.

                              Can you cite a Hadith for this claim?

                              Then it is nothing more than an oral tradition not God-breathed writing upon being written.

                              The 1st century Apostle Peter wrote that the written was more sure than the hearing of God's voice (2 Peter 1:19). Having heard God's voice from Heaven himself (2 Peter 1:17). (The context, 2 Peter 1:16-21).


                              The Law as God gave the prophet Moses requires mankind to hear all that God has spoken (Deuteronomy 8:3).



                              The claim that the Quran is God's word is not to be taken lightly (Deuteronomy 8:3).

                              But in the Proverb (30:5-6) the promise is made that God would make liars out of those who would falsely add to His words.
                              Wow!..there is a lot of confusion here?....could u go through the first video?
                              there are 2 other video links, (by me), one by a historian Khalid Blankenship and the other by a Muslim scholar Sh. Hamza Yusuf that explain all this......
                              ...the one By Sh Yasir Qadi is also good---though the emphasis is on a different point.....

                              "Uthmani codex" is the name given by "Western"/Non-Muslim scholars to the compilation done by Caliph Uthman in order to compare any early copies, pages, fragments that are discovered. I use this term because Western/Non-Muslim scholarship is still in the process of "discovery" with regards to the first compilation....though, they have kinda lost interest in the project as there are other ways of analyzing the Quran...particularly if one throws away the presumption that the Quran must follow the Biblical historical trajectory.......

                              Hadith are the sayings of the Prophet---therefore, there are unlikely to be any hadith with regards to the compilation process of either Abu Bakr or Uthman....they became Caliphs AFTER the death of the Prophet....

                              God breathed writing?---not sure what this means, but the Prophet DID NOT write the Quran---he was illiterate---others wrote (or memorized) the revelation as it was recited by the Prophet. The term " Quran" can mean "recitation". For Muslims, the Prophet is not the "author" of the Quran---for Non-Muslim historians, researchers and scholars, "who wrote the Quran" is not of particular interest as it concerns a theological matter.....since the Quran is self-referential---Most scholars (and non-scholarly people such as myself) simply speak of the Quran as if it were its own "author".....this neatly avoids the question of whether God or the Prophet is the "author"....and IMO, facilitates research co-operation between Non-Muslim and Muslim scholars on the Quran. The field of Quranic research in the West is still young...and they need to catch up to what Muslim scholars have already done...so, co-operation may lead to benefits for both sides as long as it is seriously and respectfully done....

                              What the Bible says or does not say on the subject of revelation may be of interest to Christians...but as a Muslim...I don't know what to do with it....?....The verses of the Quran are an ayat (sign/revelation) from God in text form---but nature/creation is also an ayat (sign/revelation) from God in non-text form. Both are important and the responsibility for their care and protection is on all Muslims.

                              Some directions the field of (Western) Quranic research is taking:-
                              Intertextuality---the dialogue the Quran has with other types of texts of the era...
                              Philology---development of language, grammer...etc
                              Literary anaylsis---the devices the Quran uses...etc
                              Thematic analysis---development of the themes...
                              there is also some interest in what the themes/subjects of the Quranic dialogues with Syriac Christianity can reveal about the Christians of the era...(late antiquity)...
                              Last edited by siam; 08-20-2017, 11:37 PM.

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