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Buddha and Blaming the Victim

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  • Buddha and Blaming the Victim

    My biggest issue with buddhism is that the whole 'stop desiring to stop suffering' strikes me as very much blaming the victim. It has similarities with 'thou shalt not covet' - and in the limited sense of learning contentment actually has merit. But my understanding is that buddhism takes it to the logical extreme - eliminate all desire and you eliminate all suffering.

    Suffering, then, in buddhist understanding must be a matter of perception. Eliminating the desire for food would not stop starvation - but it might make one mind it less. Seems to be 'suffering is a state of mind' thing.

    I find it a very, very poor answer to suffering. Sure, the individual can, presumably, learn to disregard desire and therefore the suffering, I suppose - but it still ends up telling the starving child 'Sweetie, the problem isn't that you don't have food - it's that you desire food'. Blaming the victim for their suffering while trying to take control of one's own suffering.

    What I really don't get is what makes this so attractive?
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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  • #2
    I have a similar problem with karma.

    Whose debt am I paying?
    sigpic

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    • #3
      And how exactly do you get paid back?
      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

      My Personal Blog

      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

      Quill Sword

      Comment


      • #4
        My issue with Buddhism is more along the lines of: why should we accept the musings of Siddartha when he did not appeal to any divine revelation or give us any real reason to accept the claims?
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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        • #5
          I am not a Buddhist, my opinions may be biased....

          Concepts get lost in translation---
          The word Dukka refers to the pain/dissatisfaction an individual feels....and Buddhism explores the psychology of (emotional) pain and tries to find solutions.

          https://www.thoughtco.com/life-is-su...at-mean-450094
          The Buddha taught there are three main categories of dukkha. These are:

          Suffering or pain (dukkha-dukkha)
          Impermanence or change (viparinama-dukkha)
          Conditioned states (samkhara-dukkha)


          Dharma --- is "law" or way of life---and this begins by understanding what is "life".
          http://www.zen-buddhism.net/buddhist...le-truths.html

          ...The other problem pointed out by Buddha here, which is very pertinent, is that denying desire (or depriving oneself) is like denying life itself. A person, he said, has to rise above attachments and for that, he need not deprive himself. The problem arises when he does not know where to put an end to his desires. And when he yields into his desires, he becomes a slave to them.

          Buddha stated that to put an end to suffering, we need to control our desires or practice non-attachment. This may sound difficult but can be achieved through diligent practice.
          This liberation from attachment and sorrow frees the mind of all troubles and worries. The attainment of this liberation is called "Nirvana" in Sanskrit


          Dharma---law/way of life (eightfold path)
          1) Right perspective (belief)
          2) Right thought
          3) Right speech
          4) Right action
          5) Right livelihood
          6) Right effort
          7) Right mindfulness
          8) Right concentration
          http://www.zen-buddhism.net/buddhist...fold-path.html

          As a Muslim, I would say, the appeal of Buddhism is that it offers the answer to the question---How do I live a good life?---the answer is Dharma

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          • #6
            Moderated By: Sparko

            moved to comp religions

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            • #7
              Dharma---law/way of life (eightfold path)
              1) Right perspective (belief)
              2) Right thought
              3) Right speech
              4) Right action
              5) Right livelihood
              6) Right effort
              7) Right mindfulness
              8) Right concentration
              The "Right perspective (belief)" entails believing in the 4 noble truths.
              The "Right effort" entails living the 8 fold path.

              The 4 noble truths in short:
              1. Suffering is universal.
              2. Know the cause of suffering.
              3. Know how to eliminate the cause of suffering.
              4. Eliminate the cause of suffering by living the 8 fold path.

              Just the 10th commandment, Thou shalt not covet, deals with this, in short, I think.
              . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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              • #8
                The bible pretty much promises suffering in this life.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  The bible pretty much promises suffering in this life.
                  John 16:33,
                  . . . These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. . . .


                  Not coveting does not remove this, does it?

                  Jesus listing laws relating people to people to the rich young ruler. That was the one He did not mention, for which the rich young ruler said he followed all of them from his youth. Then Jesus suggested that he should sell all that he had. (Luke 18:18-22.)
                  . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                  . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by siam View Post
                    I am not a Buddhist, my opinions may be biased....

                    Concepts get lost in translation---
                    The word Dukka refers to the pain/dissatisfaction an individual feels....and Buddhism explores the psychology of (emotional) pain and tries to find solutions.

                    https://www.thoughtco.com/life-is-su...at-mean-450094
                    The Buddha taught there are three main categories of dukkha. These are:

                    Suffering or pain (dukkha-dukkha)
                    Impermanence or change (viparinama-dukkha)
                    Conditioned states (samkhara-dukkha)


                    Dharma --- is "law" or way of life---and this begins by understanding what is "life".
                    http://www.zen-buddhism.net/buddhist...le-truths.html

                    ...The other problem pointed out by Buddha here, which is very pertinent, is that denying desire (or depriving oneself) is like denying life itself. A person, he said, has to rise above attachments and for that, he need not deprive himself. The problem arises when he does not know where to put an end to his desires. And when he yields into his desires, he becomes a slave to them.

                    Buddha stated that to put an end to suffering, we need to control our desires or practice non-attachment. This may sound difficult but can be achieved through diligent practice.
                    This liberation from attachment and sorrow frees the mind of all troubles and worries. The attainment of this liberation is called "Nirvana" in Sanskrit


                    Dharma---law/way of life (eightfold path)
                    1) Right perspective (belief)
                    2) Right thought
                    3) Right speech
                    4) Right action
                    5) Right livelihood
                    6) Right effort
                    7) Right mindfulness
                    8) Right concentration
                    http://www.zen-buddhism.net/buddhist...fold-path.html

                    As a Muslim, I would say, the appeal of Buddhism is that it offers the answer to the question---How do I live a good life?---the answer is Dharma
                    Thank you, I appreciate the thoughtful reply. I'm not sure I'm following it correctly - let me give it some more thought and get back to you.
                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Both Buddhism and Christianity can be seen in the context of the previous religion that gave birth to it....in both Judaism and Hinduism, one is born into the religious system---in Judaism, one is born a Jew and in Hinduism, one is born into the (Hindu) caste. In this context, Buddhism and Christianity both made worship/religion more inclusive.

                      One difference between some types of Buddhism and some Christianities may be that in Christianity, the Eternal God's perfection is celebrated, In Buddhism, the fragility, (impermenance) and imperfections of humanity and creation is celebrated.

                      The Mandala(sand art) is the the way this philosophy is expressed in ritual
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10084L3Pqsc

                      In Japan, this is understood as the aesthetics of wabi sabi (rustic-ness)
                      here is one way the philosophy works in everyday items through the repair of broken ceramics (Kintsugi) and what it says about human nature....
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT55_u8URU0

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                      • #12
                        The course I had on religions discussed Buddhism's reference to 'desire' as 'grasping'.

                        As I understand it, desire isn't meant to refer to basic human needs. It refers to wanting things beyond the basic satisfaction of those needs. You need shelter. That's not desire. Desire is wanting a big house with lots of rooms. You need food. Desire is wanting a lot of food ready at any time, or only high quality meals, etc.

                        The usage of 'grasping' fits a lot better here, in my opinion. You're grasping for things beyond your need (and probably beyond your reach). My wife, for example, went through a period where she needed to be in control of everything. Naturally, this is impossible to achieve. Even so, the more she failed to control, the more she fought for control. It only ended up making her (and everyone around her) miserable. Eliminating the desire eliminates the frustration (suffering) felt at failing. It involved a fair bit of self-reflection as well, and some level of coming to terms with inability to control life.
                        I'm not here anymore.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          My issue with Buddhism is more along the lines of: why should we accept the musings of Siddartha when he did not appeal to any divine revelation or give us any real reason to accept the claims?
                          At its core, a religion can be seen as a set of beliefs which explain a few fundamental concepts: 1) the human 'predicament', 2) why we find ourselves in this predicament, and 3) how to get out of the predicament. The first concept is more or less a given, though the descriptions may vary. The second and third are paired together. Buddhism's "desire = suffering" is a formulation of those two concepts. The "real reason to accept the claims" boils down to how well the claims resonate with the individual.

                          As for divine revelation, that only works if the listener already accepts the source as divine. The appeal to divine revelation does not in itself increase the likelihood that a given claim is true.
                          I'm not here anymore.

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