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IF Bahai was in charge of the laws of our land...

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  • #16
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    I believe the above is false. More references to follow.

    Revelation 11 verse 15
    15 The seventh angel sounded, and great voices in heaven followed, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord, and of his Christ. He will reign forever and ever!”
    Jesus escaped the crowd after the feeding of the 5,000 because he... well, let John tell it...

    Scripture Verse: John 6:15

    When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

    © Copyright Original Source



    His time had not yet come. He will be King, but not yet. And even you will bow and acknowledge it.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

      Jesus escaped the crowd after the feeding of the 5,000 because he... well, let John tell it...

      Scripture Verse: John 6:15

      When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

      © Copyright Original Source



      His time had not yet come. He will be King, but not yet. And even you will bow and acknowledge it.
      The point is Jesus was destined to be King depending on which of the many diverse conflicting divisions many claim the Divine Right of Christians exists now and the Roman Church believes the Divine right of the church has always existed in Divine mandate of the Roman Church (RCC).

      More references to follow.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

        The point is Jesus was destined to be King depending on which of the many diverse conflicting divisions many claim the Divine Right of Christians exists now and the Roman Church believes the Divine right of the church has always existed in Divine mandate of the Roman Church (RCC).

        More references to follow.
        At the end of the age, Frank.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

          There is not semantic presumption open in Baha'i Law and administration. It is specifically in the writings as for Baha'is ONLY.
          The same is true of Christianity, but that did not prevent church theologians from making it seem otherwise. Bahai precepts are by no means immune to the kind of tinkering that would produce the imposition of a theocratic hegemony.

          Originally posted by CP
          c) The NT (Christianity) has no such emphasis on gaining control of land or governments.
          CP is correct. Christianity is a voluntary association of like minded people who agree that Christians should obey (not the laws as such of) God. This does not prevent Christians from being politically active, but it does prevent Christians from imposing rules on outsiders without due democratic process. There is recognition that (particularly) sacred law, so to speak, cannot be imposed on outsiders. Nor can Christians yield to rules imposed by outsiders that would have Christians disobedient to God.


          I believe the above is false. "The seventh angel sounded, and great voices in heaven followed, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord, and of his Christ. He will reign forever and ever!”"
          Divine rule will be imposed, yes. That is not a task delegated to humans - God himself will be the one to institute that circumstance. I do believe that the Bahai faith says something along the same lines.
          1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
          Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
          .
          If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

          "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

            At the end of the age, Frank.
            Actually no, depends on which church you belong to according to many Christians including the Roman Church the Vatican rules the believers today as a mandate from God.

            The prophecies in the OT do not mention the end of any age:

            Isaiah 9 verses 6 - 7
            6 For a child is born to us. A son is given to us; and the government will be on his shoulders. His name will be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end, on David’s throne, and on his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from that time on, even forever. The zeal of the LORD of Armies will perform this.



            The prophet Daniel foretells that God will set up a worldwide kingdom replacing all existing nations:


            Daniel 2 verse 44
            44 “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, nor will its sovereignty be left to another people; but it will break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it will stand forever.



            The prophet Daniel sees a vision indicating that God (the ancient of days) will give a son rulership over a worldwide permanent kingdom:


            Daniel 7 verses 13 - 14
            13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, there came with the clouds of the sky one like a son of man, and he came even to the ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 Dominion was given him, and glory, and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations, and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which will not pass away, and his kingdom that which will not be destroyed.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

              Actually no, depends on which church you belong to according to many Christians including the Roman Church the Vatican rules the believers today as a mandate from God.

              The prophecies in the OT do not mention the end of any age:

              Isaiah 9 verses 6 - 7
              6 For a child is born to us. A son is given to us; and the government will be on his shoulders. His name will be called Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and of peace there shall be no end, on David’s throne, and on his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from that time on, even forever. The zeal of the LORD of Armies will perform this.



              The prophet Daniel foretells that God will set up a worldwide kingdom replacing all existing nations:


              Daniel 2 verse 44
              44 “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, nor will its sovereignty be left to another people; but it will break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it will stand forever.



              The prophet Daniel sees a vision indicating that God (the ancient of days) will give a son rulership over a worldwide permanent kingdom:


              Daniel 7 verses 13 - 14
              13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, there came with the clouds of the sky one like a son of man, and he came even to the ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 Dominion was given him, and glory, and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations, and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which will not pass away, and his kingdom that which will not be destroyed.
              Timing, Frank.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                Timing, Frank.
                Based on the claims of Christianity the time had come with the fulfillment of prophecy happened with the Jesus Christ in the first century. That is actually the claim of the Roman Empires that claimed the Divine Right and authority to rule world. and later the Roman and orthodox churches, and later the Royal houses of Europe.

                Nonetheless of any time issue the claims are specific that Christians will rule the world absolutely.
                Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-24-2022, 10:08 AM.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                  Based on the claims of Christianity the time had come with the fulfillment of prophecy happened with the Jesus Christ in the first century. That is actually the claim of the Roman Empires that claimed the Divine Right and authority to rule world. and later the Roman and orthodox churches, and later the Royal houses of Europe.

                  Nonetheless of any time issue the claims are specific that Christians will rule the world absolutely.
                  Do you see any of that happening, Frank?
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    Do you see any of that happening, Frank?
                    Yes, as described it happened in history, and for example the popular movement of Christian Nationalism in the Republican Party to make the party a Christian party
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                      Yes, as described it happened in history, and for example the popular movement of Christian Nationalism in the Republican Party to make the party a Christian party
                      Frank, you're digging up really obscure stuff and acting like it's imminent. You're choosing to live in fear of something that only has a chance of happening of God Himself intervenes.

                      If God wills it, there's nothing you can do to stop it.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                        Based on the claims of Christianity the time had come with the fulfillment of prophecy happened with the Jesus Christ in the first century. That is actually the claim of the Roman Empires that claimed the Divine Right and authority to rule world. and later the Roman and orthodox churches, and later the Royal houses of Europe.
                        Anyone can make claims. These groups declared that their authority rested on unsubstantiated claims of "Divine Approval."

                        Nonetheless of any time issue the claims are specific that Christians will rule the world absolutely.
                        Nothing says that Christians will rule absolutely. The claim is that God himself will rule.
                        1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                        Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                        .
                        If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

                        "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                          Anyone can make claims. These groups declared that their authority rested on unsubstantiated claims of "Divine Approval."



                          Nothing says that Christians will rule absolutely. The claim is that God himself will rule.
                          Yes, by the fulfillment of prophecies as cited from the OT describes God will rule absolutely when they are fulfilled. It is Jesus Christ that would rule based on the prophecies, I guess the prophecies cited did not happen. The coming of Jesus Christ claims to fulfill the prophecies. Holy Roman Empire and the Royal Houses of Europe claim to rule by God's Divine Right as the prophecies are claimed to be fulfilled.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                            Frank, you're digging up really obscure stuff and acting like it's imminent. You're choosing to live in fear of something that only has a chance of happening of God Himself intervenes.

                            If God wills it, there's nothing you can do to stop it.
                            Nothing obscure about what I have cited. Need not be immanent or otherwise. I made no such claim, but many Christians have claimed it will be imminent for over 2000 years and nothing has happened..
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                              Yes, by the fulfillment of prophecies as cited from the OT describes God will rule absolutely when they are fulfilled. It is Jesus Christ that would rule based on the prophecies, I guess the prophecies cited did not happen. The coming of Jesus Christ claims to fulfill the prophecies. Holy Roman Empire and the Royal Houses of Europe claim to rule by God's Divine Right as the prophecies are claimed to be fulfilled.
                              The cited prophecies happened. The cited prophecies are not the sum of all prophecies about the messiah, some of which are yet to be fulfilled. Not so hard to understand.
                              1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                              Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                              .
                              If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

                              "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                                Obviously Christ is described as the successor of the tribal 'Messianic' lineage of the Old Testament.
                                It wasn't so obvious to the Jews of the first century. There were a number of competing concepts about the messiah during the Second Temple Period, the most commonly supported among them being that there was not one but two people fulfilling the role: a priestly messiah and a royal messiah. The advent of one messiah on two separate occasions wasn't among the concepts promoted among the Jews during that period, but it is promoted by the NT.





                                1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                                Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                                .
                                If Palm Sunday really was a Sunday, Christ was crucified on a Thursday (which could be adduced from the gospels anyway).

                                "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                                Comment

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