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Comparative Religions 101 Guidelines

Welcome to Comp Religions, this is where the sights and sounds of the many world religions come together in a big World's Fair type atmosphere, without those delicious funnel cakes.

World Religions is a theist only type place, but that does not exclude certain religionists who practice non-theistic faiths ala Buddhism. If you are not sure, ask a moderator.

This is not a place where we argue the existence / non-existence of God.

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Outside the box

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  • Outside the box

    I believe all matter has always existed.It just changes form in endless cycles. God (Hashem) is the Author of consciousness. All life on this planet go back to the earth(Mother). Religion then becomes an answer to the question does any part of consciousness survive death of the physical body. Is the concept of soul(Atman) Fact or just wishful thinking of primitive man who fear death and saw the hands of gods in everything?They talk about heaven and hell. Yet Shoel was never a place of punishment and the Earth ,solar system, and milky way are all soaring through the heavens right now.Your Yahweh was the Canaanite storm god brother of Baal ,Husband of Asherah queen of heaven and lady of the oceans. Yahweh was son of EL ELyon king and creator of the heavens. So what is absolute Truth? The Bible narrative was borrowed from the Sumerians, Babylonians and Canaanites.

  • #2
    The Messiah was taken from the Zoroastrian belief in a coming Shoashant(wayshower) after the death of Zarathustra. The 3 wise men or Magi were followers of Zarathustra. The idea of a Messiah was borrowed from the Hebrews interaction with the Persians, The Cherub were also borrowed from the Persian. I also wonder why the gospel never elaborated when Jesus dies the temple veil is ripped and the mosoleum cracks open the saints are resurrected and walk into Jerusalem. This Is in Matthew.If it really happened why do they never elaborate on who these saints were? What did they do in Jerusalem? Not an everyday occurrence yet after this verse its as if there was nothing to tell? If it smells like a fish?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Abu Njoroge View Post
      The Messiah was taken from the Zoroastrian belief in a coming Shoashant(wayshower) after the death of Zarathustra. The 3 wise men or Magi were followers of Zarathustra. The idea of a Messiah was borrowed from the Hebrews interaction with the Persians, The Cherub were also borrowed from the Persian. I also wonder why the gospel never elaborated when Jesus dies the temple veil is ripped and the mosoleum cracks open the saints are resurrected and walk into Jerusalem. This Is in Matthew.If it really happened why do they never elaborate on who these saints were? What did they do in Jerusalem? Not an everyday occurrence yet after this verse its as if there was nothing to tell? If it smells like a fish?
      I just posted this in another thread yesterday but it seems relevant here as well.

      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      Now, for my first citation from Loke in this post. He cites an example and explanation provided by McDowell and McDowell in their Evidence That Demands a Verdict: Life-Changing Truth For a Skeptical World

      What if we told you about a British ocean liner that was about eight hundred feet long, weighed more than sixty thousand tons, and could carry about three thousand passengers? The ship had a top cruising speed of twenty-four knots, had three propellers, and about twenty lifeboats. What if I told you that this ocean liner hit an iceberg on its maiden voyage in the month of April, tearing an opening in the starboard side, forward portion of the ship, sinking it along with about two thousand passengers? Would you recognize the event from history? You might say, 'Hey, that’s the Titanic!' Well, believe it or not, you would be wrong. It’s the Titan, a fictional ship described in Morgan Robertson’s 1898 book called The Wreck of the Titan: or Futility. This book was written fourteen years before the disaster took place, and several years before construction began on the Titanic! (Robertson, WT, website). Here is the point: just as the fictional account of the Titan does not undermine the reality of the sinking of the Titanic, fictional accounts of dying and rising gods would not undermine the historical reality of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. The presence of parallels alone proves nothing about borrowing or the historicity of Jesus.
      (McDowell and McDowell 2017, p. 311)


      Another interesting factoid, is that many of the things that we used to think that Christians co-opted from other religions around at the time are now being shown to be the reverse. That pagan's were at least as often borrowing things from Christianity. The whole Christmas was a pagan holiday immediately comes to mind.
      tl/dr?

      IOW, the borrowing hypothesis is too say the least overblown. If you want to see where the Messiah concept arose from read the OT.


      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #4
        If the Magi were followers of Zarathustra it still doesn't take away anything from Christ. It just hints that there are people effected by Christ that were not recorded or not completely recorded like the years between Jesus being an adolescent and him 30 years old were we find most of the gospels him somewhere between 30 and 33.It is assumed by historians He was 33 at time of crucifixion

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        • #5
          There were probably a lot more than three magi that visited Jerusalem that day. Considering that they carried valuable treasures along a journey of several months through robber-infested territory, they probably traveled alongside a caravan of traders, and most likely had a convoy of Parthian soldiers with them. Why else would Herod and all Jerusalem be afraid? (Matthew 2:3). Add to that the fact that Herod was at war three decades earlier with these guys when Antigonus II Mattathias tried to take over Judea with their help.

          Anyway, no doubt there was a connection between Zarathustra and the beliefs of the Israelites. Even German philologist Martin Haug (whose views I have little respect for) stated,
          The Zoroastrian religion exhibits even a very close affinity to, or rather identity with, several important doctrines of the Mosaic religion and Christianity, such as the personality and attributes of the devil, and the resurrection of the dead, which are both ascribed to the religion of the Magi, and are really to be found in the present scriptures of the Parsis. It is not ascertained whether these doctrines were borrowed by the Parsis from the Jews, or by the Jews from the Parsis; very likely neither is the case, and in both these religions they seem to have sprung up independently. (Martin Haug, Dr. Phil. and Edward William West, trans., Essays on The Sacred Language, Writings, and Religion of the Parsis; Second Edition (London: Trübner & Co., 1878) 4-5.)
          But whereas Haug dates Zarathustra back to the second millennium BC, he was off by about a thousand years. According to the tradition of his followers, Zarathustra was born somewhere in what is now Eastern Persia. Possibly Bactria. Maybe around the 6th century BC. That's around the area where Shalmanezer, king of Assyria, carried the Israelites off (2 Kings 18:11-12). So I would expect there to be some kind of interaction.

          Also, despite Haug's view of the Avestan language, and its supposed various dialects, the Avesta was a series of texts memorized by the Zoroastrian priests probably for centuries before finally put into writing around the 9th-10th centuries AD. And the oldest copy in existence was written around AD 1323. And even that doesn't mention virgin-born Saoshyants. You need to go to the Iranian Bundahishn or the Denkard, middle-ages writings to find that. And even then, their version of virgin birth is a form of artificial insemination. That's a far cry from stating that the Jewish Messiah was borrowed from Zoroastrianism.

          I think Rogue06 is right about this borrowing hypotheses.
          When I Survey....

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          • #6
            One thing I would like to say.Don't follow Jesus because you want to go to heaven.Don't follow him to avoid hell. Follow him because you want to know God.I believe whether heaven exists or not? Or if there is an afterlife or not? If one let's the spirit of Christ into there heart they will find peace,strength and love and It may improve there life and certainly will uplift those around you.Just my opinion as a believer and a sceptic.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Abu Njoroge View Post
              If the Magi were followers of Zarathustra it still doesn't take away anything from Christ.
              That is entirely different from your statement

              The Messiah was taken from the Zoroastrian belief


              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Abu Njoroge View Post
                One thing I would like to say.Don't follow Jesus because you want to go to heaven.Don't follow him to avoid hell. Follow him because you want to know God.I believe whether heaven exists or not? Or if there is an afterlife or not? If one let's the spirit of Christ into there heart they will find peace,strength and love and It may improve there life and certainly will uplift those around you.Just my opinion as a believer and a sceptic.
                I follow Jesus because he commands me to. Eternal life is merely a secondary benefit.
                When I Survey....

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Faber View Post

                  I follow Jesus because he commands me to. Eternal life is merely a secondary benefit.
                  Everyone has eternal life. The question is where will you spend it? I don't think there is any shame in following Jesus to spend your eternal life with God. Jesus uses that motivation throughout the bible.

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